I’ve been a vegetarian for (jeez) eight years now. I’m sorry you are having these problems, A Spoonful of Awesome, but your girlfriend sounds like a self-righteous and intolerant busybody. And it sounds unlikely that she will change those characteristics.
I’ve been in two long-term relationships with non-vegetarians, although one of them did try the veggie thing for a while, maybe a year. My girlfriend of the last three years is not a vegetarian and it’s never been an issue for us because I don’t care what other people eat. She does eat less meat than she used to, but that’s not because we make meals together and go to restaurants where there are good vegetarian options, not because of prompting from me. I’m not a vegan, they tend to be a lot more hardcore, and so…
This is a really despicable thing to say and of course it contradicts the “she can accept me as I am” thing completely. In fact I think it’s a bad sign that she doesn’t even like to see you eating meat, because she needs to pretend it isn’t happening.
I hope you can resolve this. And certainly you should work it out one way or another before you start getting serious about moving in together.
well, I’ve had far too many encounters where it comes up that I’m a vegetarian (and I *probably *was not obnoxious about it) and get the whole "what about plant rights? Plants are living. Plants can feel " spiel ad nauseum. There is a huge moral/ethical difference between a plant and a sentinent living creature. Put it in more graphic terms, it’s pretty asine to argue that killing a carrot is the same as butchering a hog.
Now maybe you’re not doing this but your comments lead a couple of us to think your might be. If the comments are not out of context, it’s akin to a creationist going out with a geologist.
First off, it IS a bit out of context, but that’s beside the point. You probably got that spiel from people with the intent to either convince you that you’re wrong or the attitude to otherwise denounce your belief. I do neither. I respect the compassion that (some, not all) vegetarians embody, and can accept that their views on the ethics of eating meat differ from mine, sans judgement.
Again, I’m not getting into a veg/non-veg ethical debate. I’m not going to get in to why I think as I do, as it requires a rather sizable, involved explanation and would accomplish nothing but take us off my original topic. In short, I don’t give a crapola about ‘plant rights’ or think that ‘carrots scream’ or any of that nonsense. All the same, I still don’t see a moral or ethical difference between eating a carrot or a hog. I know you and many others do. That’s fine. I’m not trying to convince anyone otherwise. I could go off for pages with arguments and facts supporting my beliefs, as I’m sure, could you. This would end with no productive result and a host of pissed off people on both sides. But I still can’t see how my believing as I do is in any way disrespectful to those on the other side. Just like a creationist believing in God (but not trying to force that belief on anyone) shouldn’t in itself be disrespectful to a geologist.
I didn’t get that from the OP at all. I think this is a matter of looking at the world from different perspectives, but I don’t see that in the story presented here. I know couples that have vegetarians and omnivores, and they just agree to respect each other’s choices. Trying to change the other and bring them to your value system doesn’t seem to be part of mutual respect.
I have a good friend whose wife is vegetarian, and their one toddler has food allergies. He does most of the cooking, and cooks meat, and they get along fine. She’s not a fanatic about it…it’s her choice, and I don’t recall her ever having mentioned it unless we were talking about cooking. They seem to get along just fine. But the key is, she doesn’t have that fanatical fervor that the OP’s girlfriend seems to have.
If she isn’t tolerant of this, there will be more things she won’t be tolerant of either. I’d advise breaking it off after sitting down and telling her why. She should be aware that it is her intolerance that is the reason, NOT her vegetarian choice. Otherwise she will just spin it into more omnivore hate.
Ah, it was this bit that annoyed me. So many people say things like that completely seriously. Just a joke-gotcha.
An interesting thing happens when you passionately believe something for a long time- you begin to not remember what it was like to not have those beliefs. It can become tough to have a decent, logical argument about it with someone because “IT’S OBVIOUS!!! CAN’T YOU SEE THAT THERE ARE OBVIOUS LOGICAL INCONSISTENCIES IN WHAT YOU ARE SAYING???”
Converted Atheists, when asked why you believe there is no God for the millionth time, at some point do you want to say “well, because the very idea is just silly”? It’s kind of like that. Things do become sort of black and white. You get tired of repeating yourself when it seems SO clear why you feel the way you do, and sure, why you want others to feel that way. It gets really frustrating.
And what China Guy said.
So here is a perhaps ridiculous analogy … say you have a friend, boyfriend, etc., who is a gay rights activist. You know how strongly they feel about the issue, and patiently sit through their explanation of those feelings. Then you say, “well, dear, I respect your beliefs, but I think gay people are absolutely sick and disgusting and are all going to hell. But, that’s just my opinion.” Would you really be surprised that that would piss your friend off?
Assuming that neither party is out to convert the other, I don’t see why not. I’m a vegetarian/pescatarian, my fiancé is not. We’re not living together yet, but we know where the other stands on this. I know I’ll be doing most of the cooking when we do, but preparing meat shouldn’t be too much of a problem. I’m a a big girl, I know what I’m getting into.
I think it rather depends on why she is a vegetarian in the first place.
If it is just because she would rather eat vegetables over meat, there should be no problem. But if it is because of ethical or moral reasons(which seems to be the case), then maybe you need more conscious effort to make it work. But surely doable.
There was a time in my life when I was a non-vegetarian and my ex-girlfriend (who is still a friend and broke up with me for other reasons) was not. I wouldnt eat meat at home, and when we went out it usually used to be a vegetarian place. The times we went to a non-vegetarian place, she used to fill up on veggies, and we got something for her on the way back.We were fine with this arrangement, because it is really hard to find a vegetarian place in Japan thats not exorbitantly expensive.
One thing that would definetly help is if you could avoid chomping on the meats around her. Most people can accept different tastes as long as it is not in their face all the time.
Another long-term relationship between a vegetarian and an omnivore chiming in. Frustrating for me, but not a problem — as others have said, I (the omnivore) am eating less meat and a bit healthier. I do think there’s a key difference between vegetarian and vegan, but it’s a cultural one, not moral or ethical or practical.
Many vegans (all in my admitedly limited experience) participate in a culture which makes them feel superior by constantly reminding themselves and others that exploiting animals is wrong. It’s kind of an us-the-saved vs. them-the-damned mentality. Perhaps your girlfriend is different, but I’d ask yourself where she sees you. Is she content that you’re an omnivore, even if you never change? Or does she hope or think that you’ll change, eventually?
My mother talks to her plants. We used to be jealous of the damned potted greens because whenever she and Dad went anywhere, her parting remark was “remember to water the plants!” Not “don’t kill each other,” not “don’t burn the house down:” water. The. Damn. Plants.
That’s one person right there who will always care more for anything with chlorophile in it than for, say, the canaries than one of my brothers and me had. It may be nuts, but it’s as real and sincere as your own feelings and opinions. Idlewild hit the nail so hard it went through the wall: if you have similar values, things work out; if you don’t, forget about it. Two people can have the same labels (say, “Hispanic, RC, votes for ABC Party”) and have nothing in common but those labels.
It’s not ridiculous, it just isn’t particularly helpful. Should the people who say that people choose to be gay turn out to be right in some universe, it might be helpful, but not until then. The best analogy I have found, I offer to you: it is the decision for one parent or more specifically for the mother to stay home with the kids.
Some people very strongly believe that a mother should stay home with the kids, and has a moral responsibility not to work. Other people very strongly believe that she should not, and has a moral responsibility to work. Most people fall somewhere in between. To a huge number of people, it is irrelevant. Nevertheless there are a large number of (usually) unexamined assumptions involved in all the positions on the curve and a fair amount of bitterness to be had by all.
People who fall at opposite extremes tend not to get on well in intimate relationships with one another. People who do not approach the matter as a moral imperative have an easier time with this question than people who do. But even if it is seen as a moral imperative, a person who believes that his/her path through life/enlightenmnet/spiritual development/whathaveyou belongs to him/herself and does not involve the responsibility of converting others can get on quite well at all points in the spectrum. However, in a close relationship, both parties must share this latter position or at least agree that it is desirable or things will not go well.
I agree with Marinee. If you and your girlfriend have strong moral differences and one of you is trying to convert the other or denigrating the other for their moral stance, you’ve got a problem, whether it has to do with vegetarianism, religion or anything else.
In this case, it happens to be vegetarianism. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be with someone with disdained me and called me immoral because of my food choices or really anything else. It’s extremely judgmental and it’s certainly not going to change my opinion. If anything, it will reinforce it.
Definitely talk to her about it, but I have a feeling that, unless she’s willing to back down a little or you’re willing to convert to veganism, you’re SOL. It’s up to the two of you when it will end, but if you can’t come to a satisfactory compromise, it will end.
I was going to say ‘Sure!’ until you got to the vegan bit. That’s a whole different ballgame from vegetarianism. I know tons of vegetarians. Some just don’t like the taste of meat, some have ethical problems with factory farming, some figure cutting out meat is the quickest way to a healthy diet as they age (and some figured it was the quickest way to a thinly-veiled eating disorder when they were young). Some are preachy, but most know a vegan could kick their ass when it comes to guilt trips. And, I’ll admit, this sort of keeps them in line. I was vegetarian for a long time and wouldn’t have dreamed of telling others what to eat while wearing a leather coat.
Now, I know vegans who are cool, too, though they tend to be the ones who ‘slip’ now and then. But it’s a lot harder to meet them in the middle, which I think is absolutely necessary. Would your girlfriend appreciate it if you cooked Quorn or tofu for you both every week? Would she ever try locally-raised, free range chicken (or similar) where you could visit the farm? Can she concede that there are communities on the planet that are solely sustained by meat?
How old are you and how long has she been vegan? Plenty of people take up vegetarianism or veganism in college though it doesn’t always stick. Many vegetarians and ex-vegetarians I know flirted with veganism for a year or two at some point before going back to animal products or even the occasional bit of seafood or even steak. (One pretty much did a 180 at 25, after 10 years of vegetarianism, and spent a year on a diet of medium rares. She had major period problems, though, which always made me think it was a blood loss thing). While I would never, ever recommend you tell her she’s just going through a phase, it may be a possibility.
ETA: In some ways diet (veganism, crash diets, food allergies) is a bigger issue than religion or other lifestyle differences. You can get away with going to church once a week – the issue of what to eat’s got to be confronted at least once a day.
I agree with the above. I’m a vegetarian (not vegan) and I dated a carnivorous girl for many years and it was never an issue. We only needed to make minor modifications for meal preparation (I also avoided cooking meat for her because it was a bit gross to me). It was pretty much a non-issue. A friend of mine is a vegan and her boyfriend eats meat. Also a non-issue.
But if it’s a matter of being unable to accept another’s way of life then it’s just never going to work out.
For example, the same girlfriend above, was also a very religious Christian, and I’m toeing the line of outright atheism. Again, it was not an issue. However, if she continually complained about my lack of faith or went on and on about how it pains her that I am doomed to burn in hell, the relationship would have ended.
You case isn’t any different. If it is that much of a problem for her, then there is a fundamental incompatibility.
I would say to end the relationship while you are still friends.
Obviously she can not wrap her head around your being an omnivore, and will not try to accept it fully. You can still stay friends [would you consider a monogamous relationship where you dont live together?] but I really can not see her backing off on the meat = evil thing.
I am an unrepentant carnivore - but I am dietary friendly. I have friends ranging from serious carnivore to total vegan not even honey because it oppresses the bees and I can manage to get along. It sort of helps that I love foods [looks at waistline and winces] and am pretty much willing to go along with things as long as it is not my personal kitchen and stay at home meals. Hell, I kept kosher for a lovely jewish man I lived with for about 11 months with minimal rearranging of my normal diet [oddly enough I don’t regularly mix meat and dairy, it is a fat content issue though] and I learned a whole bunch of spiffy recipes to add to my collection. [mmmm matzoh brei with grape jelly is a fantastic breakfast and my dessert noodle kugel is to die for =)]
If I am having a party, I try and make one totally anal vegan entree, I make an absolutely killer vegan minestrone, and a really nice lacto ovo lasagne that a lot of carnivores actually like. I will do stuff like have a small bowl of tiny meatballs to be used as garnish for carnivores who can not conceive of a totally meatless meal [I shudder, I had a friend who though that my minestrone recipe was great, all it needed was meat :smack: even though he agreed it tasted fantastic, he literally could not conceive of a meal that did not have meat of some sort he had meat at every single meal. ]
Yes it is possible, but not for you and her.
If she’s already questioned your morals and integrity because you eat meat, even now when she can’t see you doing it, how’s she going to be when you’re living together? If she’s trying to guilt-trip you now (you eating meat causes her pain), what’s it going to be like when she’s confronted with actual evidence of your meat-eating?
And China Guy, I don’t get that “what about plants” thing from the OP at all. If he doesn’t see a difference, she might find the belief offensive, but I don’t see how him having it makes him disrespectful to her. Even worst-case, it’s still less disrespectful than her questioning his integrity because he eats meat.
It’ll never work out without one of you radically changing your viewpoint.
She’s always going to think you’re a blood-dripping, kill-crazed butcher of our bovine, porcine and avian brothers and sisters; and you’re always going to think she’s nucking futz for thinking it.
Just based on the people I know, I have a feeling that a relationship between a vegetarian and a vegan would as hard as one between a vegetarian and non-vegetarian. Vegetarianism isn’t hard to manage (at least in the part of the country where I live), and it doesn’t require the kind of fanaticism that veganism does (that’s not pejorative - I also admire that dedication, though I certainly don’t share it).
I’m an omnivore who doesn’t particularly love meat, and I’ve gone for a week from time to time and realized I haven’t eaten any meat at all in that time. But veganism takes such constant attention that it’s a completely different way of life. You can find out that an acquaintance is a vegetarian three months after meeting them, while you usually don’t make it to two hours of acquaintance with a vegan without knowing it. I slowly lost a friend over her vegan diet, so I would not enter a relationship with one. It sounds silly to tell the OP to break up over food, but I would treat this the same as a member of a fundamentalist sect and an atheist.
This analogy is not only ridiculous, but actually disingenuous because it misstates the essential core of the argument. Aside from one minor adjective, the o.p. claims to be respectful of the culinary choices of the woman in question, while she has purportedly impugned his moral fiber and integrity for his choice to eat meat and animal products. (We don’t actually know what has transpired, of course, and it is possible that the o.p. is just as underhanded and sniping as the woman is reported as being, but I’m going just from the story that has been provided.) The o.p. is obligated to be respectful of Ms. V’s choices, but if living a vegan lifestyle is an unconditional requirement of being with her then she should state this outright rather than criticize him for not already meeting her standard.
As for the question posed by the o.p., if the difference is one of esthetics–that is to say, one partner likes meat and the other dislikes the taste, texture, or smell of meat, but is not ethically opposed to eating meat–then it is merely an issue of each party making the necessary compromises and considerations. However, if there is some core value against the consumption of meat, then you end up with a fundamental conflict and it is almost inevitable that one party is going to be progressively offended, slighted, or otherwise distressed by the other, and no amount of compromise short of complete capitulation is workable; and then even this will likely result in a backlash of resentment and underhanded subversion.
By analogy, I really dislike eggs; the taste, smell, texture, et cetera of eggs, but that would not prevent me from dating a woman who ate eggs, as long as she didn’t have them with every meal or insisted that I eat them, and she brushed her teeth after eating eggs. If I insisted that she not eat eggs, or she insisted on eating eggs sunny-side with runny yolks at every meal, the result would be an unhappy situation for all parties. Given what the o.p. has related, it seems unlikely that this union will be a very happy or agreeable one, particularly with regular proximity and comingling of living habits.
You realize that cellphones are made of pork, right?
It seems to me that something a little deeper is going on here. I could be totally wrong, but it seems like the girlfriend in question is questioning her own food choices. Perhaps she’s been craving a bacon double cheeseburger lately. Her words, as reported by the OP, don’t sound like something that would be said by someone secure in her choices.