Is alcoholism a dsease?

Catbiker–

For the vast majority of Americans with a substance abuse problem, 12-step programs are the only treatment alternative they have ever heard of. Yet some experts feel that AA and other 12-step programs are not only less effective than no treatment at all, but may actually harm you. (See link in my previous post)

I’m only trying to direct anyone who may be curious toward some literature that will give them another side of the story about 12-step programs.

Some folks (not Steppers it seems) find hearing both sides of a story rather than just one to be refreshing and enlightening. Here are some comments from a woman who read “Diseasing of America” by Stanton Peele:

“This book contains valuable information that will save lives, not only the lives of those gripped in addiction who might continue addicted because the treatment industry has perpetuated folklore about their condition, but also the quality of thier lives and the lives of their families as well. How many of you have put your loved ones in a “Treatment” Center only to have them return to drink or drugs again? Yet you might be told “relapse” is “normal,” in the “disease” of addiction. Could the problem of frequent “relapse” be perpetuated by the treatment industry itself? Is there really a medical disease-alcoholism-- that only the religious superstitions of Bill Wilson can arrest?”

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CatBiker *
**

Yeah, it’s this “you’ll die if you don’t do things our way” mentality that is so abhorred by people who can think for themselves. And the “if it doesn’t work for you, you JUST DON’T GET IT” crap is even more useless and irritating. This seems to be a common attitude among 12-step members, and one of the reasons I think the program fails so many. The smug “we know something you don’t know” demeanor is rampant, and Cat, you’ve bought into it entirely.

I suppose if the books listed don’t help the sufferer find other answers, then their only hope is a lifetime of “addiction” and hour long group moan sessions every day, right Cat?

Of course, all roads do not lead eventually to either a 12-step program or death. In fact, it IS perfectly possible that people will find help other ways. They do it every day.

-L

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SexyWriter *
**

There seem to be two questions going on in this thread;
First is alcoholism a disease?
Second, is AA an effective treatment?
I will keep my comments to the latter.
I find it interesting that nobody here has posted the steps or examined the intent behind them.
It is also important to note that there are twelve traditions which are designed to keep aa free from political entanglements.
I will post both and briefly examine the intent of them.
Please note that the comments following each step/tradition and throughout this post are purely my own opinion and not necessarily the opinion of aa as a whole.

The twelve steps of alcoholics anonymous
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
-Obviously, you can’t stop unless you admit to having a problem

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
-Note that power greater than ourselves implies no specific religion or belief system, merely an acnowledgement in the possibility of a “power greater than ourselves”

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
-This simply means that we seek to follow a spiritual path rather than the path our alcoholic tendencies would direct us toward.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
-This is intended to be an honest appraisal of our actions, attitudes, and motives both in the past and currently.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
-Alcoholics tend to be isolated and untrusting, this step begins the process of learning to trust and open up.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
-When we are able to see the patterns of thought and behavior(see step 4) which motivated us to drink, we become willing to live without these patterns.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
-This is a source of great contention with many people but most any religious or spiritual tenets speak of the necessity of both work and divine grace to improve ourselves. In meetings it is spoke of as doing the footwork and leaving the results to our higher power.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
-This begins the process of getting right with the pople we harmed during our active alcoholism.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
-amend, to change, make right. This implies a change in behavior rather than an apology.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
-Continual monitoring of our attitudes actions and motives helps us to see when we are heading back toward destructive patterns.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
-Seeking to better understand our spirituality and relationship with the god of our own understanding.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
-Having found a new way of life and a new way of looking at life, we continue to do the things which will foster those attitudes and tell others what worked for us.

Upon examination, we see that the 12 steps are neither “superstition” nor “treatment” in the traditional sense but rather a way of life which when followed honestly and open-mindedly, enables alcoholics to live a life free of alcohol.
The Twelve Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous

  • the principles which keep the fellowship free from political entanglements.

1. Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.
-united we stand, divided we fall.

2. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority — a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
-There is nobody “in charge” we acknowledge only one authority, a loving god which guides our decisions

3. The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
-Everyone is welcome regardless of age, race, sexual identity, creed, religion or lack of religion

4. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.
-Each individual group has the right to decide how it is run except when it would affect other groups or aa as a whole.

5. Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
-A.A.'s purpose is to carry a message of recovery, not to sell anything, make money, sway political decisons ect…

6. An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
-You will never see an A.A. endorsed organization, no A.A. treatment centers, counselors, aa endorsed religions etc…

7. Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
-A.A. does not accept any donations or outside support, all financial support is by internal donations(completely optional see tradition 3)

8. Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
-Fairly obvious, A.A. is not professional, ie -not for profit, not run by any board. A.A. employs special workers (lawyers, accountants etc…) as needed.
9. A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
-A.A. has no organization, but groups may send delegates to serve on boards or committees directed by the groups they serve. This helps conduct business in regards to the primary purpose(see tradition 5)

10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
-Exactly as it states, A.A has no opinion on anything outside of 12 step recovery in A.A., A.A. will never take part in any political/public controversy.

11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.
-This one has 2 parts; First, A.A. does not promote itself, makes no guarantees or promises of effectiveness. Rather, it attracts by example and simple statement of it’s principles. Second, personal anonymity is imperative as no one alcoholic speaks for A.A. as a whole.

12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
-Anonymity implies more than just a nameless state but also an equal state where nobody is more or less important for any reason.
As we can see, the traditions lay out guidelines for an equal society which does not govern nor have any public opinion. It does not become involved in politics or making money and has only one purpose, to carry the message to other alcoholics that a better way of life exists.
The unfortunate reality is that a great many aa members do not pay enough attention to these traditions and attempt to speak their opinions in the guise of “AA” opinion (see tradition 10)

Hope this clears away some of the misconceptions.

Action is fine. I have no problem with action. It’s the “not thinking” I have a problem with. I think AA is grievously in error with its pervasive anti-intellectualism. I wanted to scream every time I heard “Don’t analyze – utilize.”

When thinking does no good, it’s because it’s bad thinking. The way to correct bad thinking is not to stop thinking. It’s to switch from bad thinking to good thinking.

The Bible hasn’t changed in 2,000 years. That is not a good reason to believe it is inerrant, as some people do.

Yep, the excerpt from Chapter V. The part that ends with “God could, and would, if he were sought.”

I was very in for the better part of a 12-year period, and not entirely out for any part of it.

I’ve probably heard a few hundred people tell their stories, considering that my first home group had speaker meetings twice a week. You can do the math.

I wasn’t keeping a record, but I’m under the impression that at least half of AA members come into the program not believing in a god. It would therefore be monumentally foolish of me to suggest that AA drives all atheists away from their meetings.

The point is that “growing along spiritual lines” is not an option for some atheists, and they know it is not an option, and so after hearing “How It Works,” they don’t come back.

And, it isn’t likely that they’re going to stick around long enough after the meeting to tell you that that’s why they won’t be back. All you’re going to see is a person you haven’t seen before, who doesn’t pick up a white chip, and who doesn’t come back.

I know about those people because I’ve heard their stories. After I left AA, I found an online secular recovery program. Some of the people in that fellowship, because of their experiences with AA, are very, very bitter against it, but they are sober today nevertheless. AA does drive some atheists away with its clearly implied message that atheists don’t have a chance at recovery unless they can get over their atheism. The lucky ones find another way to get sober. You can imagine what happens to the unlucky ones.

Oh, give me some credit. Of course I know it’s not an official policy. There is no official “AA policy” on anything. “Our leaders are but trusted servants. They do not govern . . . Every AA group should be autonomous, except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole.” And, even if a group does do something against the interests of other groups or AA as a whole, there’s not a damn thing GSO can do about it.

But, does “CPC” ring any bells with you? If not, I’ll give you a hint. It stands for “Cooperation with the Professional Community.” Sound familiar now? Is there, or is there not, a prevalent consensus among AA members active in service work that this is A Good Thing for the Fellowship?
**

I did no such thing, of course. That would have been against the Traditions.
**

I certainly did hear about such groups. I also heard of groups saying no to black people who wanted to attend their meetings.
**

I don’t think I’m all that confused, although I understand why you think I am. Much of what you say is similar to what I’d have said when I was active, if someone had told me what I’m telling you now. With many organizations or experiences, there are certain things that you just can’t see unless you’ve been there, done that, and then left by a different route from the one that took you there.

Except for my atheism, I was probably as much a True Believer in AA as anyone. I used to say, when I told my story, that I had come to believe that “Anybody, anywhere, who is living happy, joyous, and free is practicing the 12 Steps in some way, whether they know it or not.” I don’t believe that anymore, but I did then.
**

I know that. But picture this . . . I’m a drunk who’s hit bottom. I’ve managed to do it without getting arrested, but I’m broke, out of work, and all but homeless. No way I can get any professional treatment. But I’ve heard of AA and manage to find a meeting and get to it. When the meeting is over, I go up to somebody and say, “I’m afraid I can’t use the kind of help you’re offering. Where can I go for help where they don’t talk about God or spirituality?” You tell me: What kind of response am I probably going to get?

They’ll reply: Just look over the spirituality and god bit, now shut up and listen to the rest of us, drunks. Don’t Interrupt!

**Douglas of California: ** You can’t win.

It’s like all religion. They’ll say “it’s in the 12 steps” *or * “it’s in the bible”.

??? **I don’t believe!

** * Yes, I’m bitter. [and sober] If you try to do it your own way, the AA drops you like a stone.

I’m okay, but I know of a guy who died, cause he didn’t “believe”. I visited him and tried to get him hospitalized, but no AA member even *asked * about him. :frowning:

**
Well, that’s one reason I work to avoid becoming bitter. Bitter people say silly things like “AA drops you like a stone.”

I think I’ve made it pretty clear that I am not exactly defending AA here. However, no good cause can be served by such misrepresentions. Would you please explain exactly how AA “drops” anyone?

That I find very difficult to believe. One of the biggest concerns that people in AA have is scaring off newcomers. The most standard and sincere answer is that you can choose what ever to be your higher power. One common example is choosing the “group” There are many atheists in AA.

I haven’t been to an AA meeting in 20 years, but the 5 years that spent going to meetings was a great period ofspiritual (not religious) growth, which has enabled me to live an enriched life without booze. I know many people who’s lives have been salvaged by AA.

One thing for sure is no organization has such diversity and/tolerance. If you are a member of the kkk you can find a group you are comfortable with. If you are gay you will find a gay group or you could start one. nobody is overseeing these groups.

Czarcasm could participate in AA without compromising his principles or beliefs as long as he has a desire to stop drinking. See tradition 3.

For those rational intellectual scientific posters who have a problem with a spiritual solution to an irrational problem, I only hope you will never experience the depths of despair and hopelessness recounted a million (a big number in any case) times every day throughout North America.

No, Czarcasm couldn’t.
I would have trouble pretending that the “God” that permeates the literature that is supposed to guide me isn’t really there. I would have a real problem with the “Higher Power” that doesn’t exist that I am supposed to surrender to. And if I truly believed I had a desease, I would insist on seeing the scientific studies that showed that AA would be the most effective treatment program. When it comes to my health and welfare, I’m pretty damn careful, I guess.

OK, I’d like to set the record straight on how exactly AA members represent AA as a whole. No individual member, or group of members, or AA group, can tell you what AA’s position is on ANY MATTER WHATSOEVER, and that includes me. I can, however, state my opinion on anything as a member. Is that clear? I can state my opinion, I cannot state AA’s opinion.

“While each member of A.A. is free to make his or her own interpretations of A.A. tradition, no individual member is ever recognized as a spokesperson for the Fellowship locally, nationally, or internationally. Each member speaks only for himself or herself.”

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/english/E_FactFile/M-24_d9.html

In order to be responsible to this discussion, please reference AA literature to find out what AA’s position is on religion, religious affiliation, etc.

For example, AA has no position on Hazelden. Hazelden is free to do whatever it wishes, and may state that AA has a certain view on any matter it wishes. However, that doesn’t necessarily make it SO.

For another example, there are many AA members who feel that if someone takes drugs, they are not sober. Some will take this as far as saying that drinking coffee makes one nonsober. Others will say that taking a physician’s prescribed antidepressant medicine makes a person not sober, some say it’s fine. However, if you check with AA literature, there’s a specific response to this matter. The pamphlet, which I don’t have handy, is called something like AA and Medicine or some such thing. Pick it up if you care to see it in print for yourself. The response is that AA has no position on outside issues, medicine being an outside issue.

Your AA buddy might point fingers, or condone drug use. Your sponsor may fire you, your home group may treat you differently, or they may say it’s fine for you to smoke pot if that’s the only thing that helps you eat when your chemotherapy makes you want to die. That person’s opinion is just that, their opinion. And only that.

The courts may send people to AA meetings for treatment, and AA may/may not hold itself out to the courts, as the case may be. It is not up to me or any other member, or members, or group of members, or even a PREPONDERANCE of members, to state AA’s position on this matter. Is that clear?

AA is very specific on this matter, please see their website. It’s spelled out for you or anyone else.

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org

Members say this, members say that. They’ll drop you like a stone, they say you have to believe in God, or even Jesus or Allah. They say you have to do the 12 steps. They say you shouldn’t quit smoking, or must quit smoking. They say you should do a treatment program. They say you should put a dollar, or two, or ten, in the basket. They say you shouldn’t have a dog, or quit your job, or whatever.

To all the discussion participants, please realize that you are choosing to hear what you wish to hear. Your mind is your own, your decisions are your own. The responsibility for your decisions is your own.

You do not have to believe in God to be a member of AA. The only requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking. I believe whole-heartedly in that statement. I have personally attended a meeting in which the speaker stated that he was, and continues to be, an atheist. He specifically believes that there is no such thing as a higher power. The room applauded when he was finished speaking. At the time, he had 17 years of sobriety. There are several AA groups in Chicago and LA who are atheists and agnostics. I’ve never attended them, but they are there.

If you choose to believe in some sort of higher power, you can pick anything you like. I know a guy who prayed to Mr. Potato Head for years, and he was very well accepted by the group.

The vast majority of members might believe in or accept a higher power, and you might feel peer pressure to join them. However, you are free to believe or not believe as the case may be. The peer pressure may be strong, by the way. I felt/feel a great deal of peer pressure in the group, but I maintain my beliefs in the face of adversity regardless of what others may say. Well, I do now. There was a time when I soaked in whatever was spouted in my direction by whatever moron was running his mouth at the moment, but that was my choice and I live with the consequences of that decision today.

For example, I do not have a sponsor and don’t feel the need for one. Haven’t had one for years. Probably won’t get one tonight. I might change my mind, but nobody in the meetings is going to change my mind for me. There are people who still give me shit about this, but fuck 'em. They get to live their lives, I get to live mine.

Just to be clear on this, the program of Alcoholics Anonymous is contained in the literature. The FELLOWSHIP of Alcoholics Anonymous is made up of human beings. I don’t know if that point has been made yet, but I figured I would throw it in just for shit and giggles.

I get it. If someone gets something good out of AA, AA is good. If someone gets something bad out of AA, its the fault of some individuals within AA.
Sounds fair to me. :frowning:

If I go to meetings and am expected to ignore everything I hear there, and avoid any pressure by the group, why am I any better off than if I sat at home and thought about the issue myself? If I stay home, I don’t have to go through the stress of resisting such pressure. If the literature consists of only “suggestions” and the meetings are full of people who don’t speak for anyone, don’t have the answers, and may not even be recovered, what exactly is the point?

I state again that there IS an “12-step culture” that DOES push people in certain directions and chase people off when they don’t adhere to those principles. Convincing some poor fool to pray to Mr. Potato Head does not negate the religious aspects of this group culture.

-L

I don’t disagree, but with all due respect, isn’t that awfully easy for you say now? Would you have said it so emphatically the day you walked into your first meeting?

**

There is no “might” about what the vast majority of AA members believe regarding a higher power. As for the peer pressure, I’ll concede that that depends on which group someone happens to attend.

But having conceded that, I would suggest that it takes a pretty tough ego to resist the kind of peer pressure that is typical of the AA groups I knew, and that an alcoholic who has hit bottom isn’t likely to have much ego left.

Very Funny. Ha ha. Dropping you like a stone. Stupid thing to say, yes.

Excuse me. English is not my native tongue. I make a lot of mistakes.

FYI; Yes, that was a quote “look over the god bit, now shut up and listen. Don’t interrupt.”

Catbiker; Perhaps my English was lacking again, or you didn’t get my message.

*I * wasn’t dropped.

I was with the AA for about a year and a half .

Got my first year badge there.

Then I found out how they realy treated people, who didn’t belong to the group anymore. :frowning:

I can give you the name of the guy who died.

Yes; Even his last name. He called me and I tried to talk him out of boozing.

When I talked about it at the group, they said; You can’t help him. He *wants * to drink. Better leave him alone.

I’m sorry, but I couldn’t do that. For heavens sake; Even though he didn’t agree with the AA rules. He was a human being.

This took place about 5 and a half years ago, here, in Holland.

Addresses and names will be given by e-mail.

*btw; Since I got Prozac, I’m dry- and will be so without help from a bunch of uncaring people. *

And excuses for my English again.

You go look for AA. You don’t like it. You leave. How do you place the blame on AA for what you refuse to do? You buy the house at the end of the runway and them complain about the noise?

No locks on the door. Works both ways.

Now about people who have or think they have tried everything else and still can not stop drinking. They go look for AA and find it. It works for them and they are happy and say so. They go and it does not work for them and they go out and die or run into you and you save them. Daffodil said that he/she was asked to help but the guy refused to quit drinking. Yes he was very human, but what is the fault of AA here? You never have a problem with addiction, good, but why do you get to tell the folks that like Fords that they have to use Honda’s because you don’t like Fords?

Back to the OP. If in your opinion and 99% of the worlds population it is not a disease and you stop the insurance companies from paying ( they are to a large extent not paying anyway compared to 15 years ago) and the judges from sending people to them. Yet, AA will go on because those things have nothing to do with AA. All through history, people have tried to pass laws against a thought process and/or a belief. Never really worked yet although they have killed millions along the way trying. Untill AA came along, nothing else has worked on LOW BOTTOM DRUNKS as well or as for long. As a sober life style became more advantageous and potential drunks of the were caught before they really went to the pits, some do not need/want/ AA. Yepper, other things work too. Some go on and die or kill a lot of people or are just miserable. Some in AA are just mesiriable too. So?

If it keeps me and some others sober, we’ll probably keep doing it. There are some who seem to be able to stop going to what ever it was that helped them in the first place and go on. Good for them. I am defective, I will go back to drinking because I am an alcoholic, and AA is what it takes to keep ME sober. There might be something else, but I know AA works for me, I should quit, go try what YOU say to do and it does not work for me and I get drunk and die in a wreck the first time I drink. This would be a good thing to tell me to do because you think AA is not the way to do it?

Is alcoholism a disease?

According to AA, alcoholism is a disease. According to several medical authorities, alcoholism is a disease. To many others, alcoholism is not a disease. My opinion is that it is a behavior disorder coupled with a spiritual or moral or worldview or selfish/unselfish problem or philosophical problem. I’m not really sure how to describe it exactly, but I think that mushing two or three of those together kind of gets the idea. I think primarily the problem is selfishness. There does seem to be medical evidence that some are more predisposed to alcoholism than others.

I think this is a matter upon which reasonable people might disagree.

mor·al (môrl, mr-)
adj.

1.Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
2.Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
3.Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
4.Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
5.Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.
6.Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty.

http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=moral&db=*

Moral might fit the nature of the problem. I’m not convinced that God is the answer, or the problem. Spirituality hasn’t been a huge help to me, but morality seems to help me.

If so, what causes it? What cures it?

Fuck if I know.

AA says you can’t be cured… so what do you call alcoholics who have permanently stopped drinking?

AA does indeed say an alcoholic of the hopeless variety can’t be cured. Am I of the hopeless variety? Does anything else work for me? I’m not sure, but I’m also not going to ditch something that’s worked for me for the last seven years just for the hell of it. I don’t find searching my morality so painful that I want to try anything else.

(AA says you call them “dry drunks” which is one of the single most ridiculous concepts I’ve ever heard. I’m sure the hundreds of thousands or millions of people who have stopped drinking forever-- WITHOUT going through the pseudo-intellectual contortions of AA would probably agree with me.)

There’s two sides to this idea. Some people believe that anyone who drinks even once or twice out of compulsion is an alcoholic. That’s a little stiff for me. I will say that if somebody came to a meeting I attend having been drunk only once that I wouldn’t turn them away due to lack of qualification. It’s not my business to screen out potential members. Nor is it my business to make sure that someone attends a meeting when I think they should. So, is the person who drinks one time out of compulsion who thereafter simply grinds out the day without a drink a dry drunk? Maybe. Maybe I’m one too. I’ve spent time just grinding my way through a day wishing I could have a drink or a joint. The term dry drunk has an underlying connotation of anger and pain, so if going without a drink causes you to be angry and in pain, you might be a dry drunk.

On the other hand, the concept of a dry drunk can be used as a tool for peer pressure by group members to try to gain compliance out of another person. I’ve personally engaged in that kind of behavior. I used to be a big book nazi step thumping asshole. I regret that part of my recovery and the pain I might have caused people who were just living their lives when I stirred up problems where there might not have been any trouble. So, is someone who won’t listen to me a dry drunk? I doubt it, but there are LEGIONS of AA members who would disagree with that statement. They piss me off, and I’m more inclined to think that THEY’RE the dry drunks.

AA is not perfect.

I think the idea of crushing someone’s ego to get them to listen to you is not good. It’s manipulative, it’s fear-based, it’s crude. Sometimes it’s useful, though, and I know many people who were beat into a state of reasonableness through these methods and the balance of harm and good came out heavier on the good than on the harm. Still, there’s a better way.

I think the better way is simply to live a good life based on spirituality/religion/morality/unselfishness/whatever, and simply let the benefits speak for themselves to someone who’s in need of that kind of life. Of course, that’s a little more boring than pounding one’s born again sobriety into some poor unsuspecting newcomer who will then follow you around like a sheep.

Good comes from the program, and bad comes from the program. Sometimes the cops beat up innocent people, and sometimes they arrest the guilty. On the balance, I like having cops around. In the same way, some AA groups have a definite cult-like appearance or behavior (Pacific Group, anyone?), and some have an easy-going and example-driven flavor to them.

So why go? Why would anyone want to go to AA and be confronted with all these variables, all these choices, all these potholes to avoid? Good question, and the answer is one that comes only with time.

Sometimes, a person in a meeting will say something that gives me a better idea on how to live my life. Sometimes a person in a meeting will say something that gives me a little more compassion or joy. That’s about it. The cumulative effect of several thousand meetings has given me a good number of spiritual/moral/unselfish/etcetcetc tools I can use in my day to NOT focus on taking a drink to make myself feel better. No big secret, no big deal either.

Of course, I’ve spent several thousand hours of my life putting that experience together. On the balance, I’m sure that if another person were so inclined they might find a more efficient way to do it.

Here’s another way you might look at spirituality. I know a couple buddhists who believe in reincarnation. They don’t literally believe that your current consciousness will return as a wombat or some shit like that. They look at it as your body decomposes and things grow on your body like mushrooms or worms or it just decomposes back into soil which nourishes the environment. You get to unconsciously partake in the continuing life the earth has. I kind of like that idea. Reincarnation might mean something completely different to another person, but it’s just semantics. The thought police are not out to get you.