I never want to imply that you are simple minded Phlosphr, I hope you know that I do not feel that way about you or others here. 
To repond to what you said though… you mentioned docs, lawyers, professors and clergy. I am fairly sure most of them are not simple-minded all - they instead have supernatural beliefs like most people in this country do!
Open meetings everyone can attend. Closed meetings, only those who have a desire to stop drinking may attend.
Here is a list of Chicago Area meetings, in it you can choose what type of meeting you would like to attend…Note the Atheist/Agnostic meetings… Hmmmm, I wonder what those are? 
Actually that site is extremely well put together, they have something for everyone. Even meetings with babysitters, mid-night meetings, gay/lesbian etc…etc…
As for all else you said: You meet all kinds in the rooms, all kinds. Some give odd examples like the one you mention…Others are a little more succinct.
Evil Joe - I understand. Some people do put their faith in the supernatural. Sucks, but it happens. I personally have a different set of beliefs. Yet, AA does work for me.
I spent a lot of my life as a pilot. I spent 8 years in recovery as a pilot of a mapping aircraft. I have been to meetings all over the country. All kinds. Some were better than others.
I have only run into one meeting with a predominance of nasty old farts with bad attitudes that said it was their way ‘only’ that would work. Out of may thousands of different meetings in hundreds of different cities.
I could not be that lucky to miss all but one bad group.
You could not even find it if I told you the city because the folks you might ask would know to not send a new person to it. It is rather ‘infamous’ in that local area.
I have run into crusty old time AA only members but they are in a very small minority.
If you want to get bent about terminology, and ‘clarity’ and demand that it all be good across the board, well, good luck in any number of things with different groups around the world, even those with a hard and fast set of rules. Bawahahaha, that is IMO, asking for something that does not apply much in reality.
I asked over the years I was flying, and even now, for the location of these bad groups. No one ever gives me the name of the group, a contact #, a city and street address, a meeting time, nada. I have AA friends all over the country and if I can’t get to that meeting, I know people who can and who will report the attitudes, conditions and practices of that group to me. I never get any information on where these meetings are. Why is that?
I have been in the position to go to many different meetings all over the country, due to my job, more so than 95% of recovering alcoholics I would think and I have found nothing like you all are describing.
I know of meetings where they will not talk about drugs other than alcohol. They just won’t talk about it. They do not throw you out. They state up front that they don’t do ‘drugs’. Why is this a bad thing? There are maybe hundreds of meeting in the same town that will plus the NA and CA meetings that will.
I have been to some wacky meetings but never one that said that a person ‘must’ do it their way or excluded them from anything.
Where are these meetings of which you speak? I will get someone to go to them and report back with facts.
What GusNSpot said.
Ok maybe many don’t say their way is the only way to sobriety. I have heard many speakers preface a speech about how AA is the way to get sober with “maybe someone can get sober some other way”. Either way the implication is that to doubt the AA way is to be pitied. Meeting are not trying to be contentious so they try to tone it down.
A sponsor however ( one of the 3 things you need for a GOOD sobriety IIRC ) will most assuredly tell you all the things that are hinted at in meetings.
Truth be told, I have less of a hard-on with most of the AA set than I do with the professionals who can’t see beyond their own experience with AA and fail their patients by refusing to learn about the other options that are out there. The AA organization itself would appear to be more sincere if they’d drop either drop the god rap or at least admit that they have a secondary mission to convert their atheist members.
I’d think they’d just as soon drop the God schtick than anything else. As we have said “WE’RE NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE !!” [SUP]except the truely succeptible people, we prey upon them the most…[/sup]
I’m going to hell. 
Check out my post up thread 3 or 4 posts…listing the chicago area meetings, and the filters…note the ones for atheists and agnostics…
I’m aware of the Six Step Programs. 
How is success determined? If an alcoholic is mostly successful in staying sober, but backslides once or twice over many months or years, could that still basically be a success, based on the fact that the person stayed sober much longer than they otherwise would have?
The L.A. freeway system is a complete and utter failure for me whenever I hear the traffic report and then decide that I’m better off making the 10 mile homeward schlep on the surface streets, but nobody’s planning to get rid of the freeways.
Success means different things to different people.
Regarding your L.A. Freeway analogy, the difference is that alcoholic are generally not given an alternate route; most professionals just stick them on the freeway that often leads to nowhere rather than showing them other paths to their destination.
I was wondering tonight … it’s not just the professionals, but when an alcoholic is in a docs office, it takes quite a bit of courage to say…“Doc I think I’m an alcoholic, or I think I have a drinking problem…” more often than not, the alky waits, until they hit more of a bottom…unfortunately a dead rock bottom sometimes…before they seek help. At this point, the quick method is just for a doc to say… “go to AA…” I dunno, it varies…and I’m not sure where I’m going with this.
Women have more of a problem with that than men. Alcholism is often undiagnosed with women or misdiagnosed. In the past women were often given anti-depression or anti-anxiety medication that just masked the problem and it took them even longer to get help. Often they end up with two addictions.
I have, in the past, been very jealous of the fact* that doctors toss Xanax at women more readily than men
Actually I was imitating the technique of a UK comedienne, Caroline Aherne, probably not a good idea on a multi country board.
My view is that the most important thing is to identify the root cause, treating the symptons but leaving the underlying problem alone strikes me as pretty useless - from experience I speak with some bitterness. Being doped up to the eyballs is not very pleasant.
From the very little I know about the AA, it does sound as if they address both, and I’ve been interested in reading about people’s personal experiences.
It’s kind of sad that at the same time that we’re making such strides against some “diseases” that there are other conditions-- such as addiction–where even some of our best and brightest are still in the bloodletting and drilling-holes-in-the-head stages.
That is one of the most interesting things about AA, though-- that superstition can help keep some people (admittedly a smaller number than those that try WITHOUT relying on superstition) from drinking or using drugs. It’s kinda like a huge mental-gymnastics meet, but with very high stakes.
I think the world will be a better place when people can be helped to quit without having to master the brain-draining logic contortions of AA first.
I don’t think it’s so much that doctors *won’t * prescribe to men as it is that men (in my experience, anyway) are much more reluctant to go to a doctor if they have *any * problem, much less a mental or emotional one. They can get booze without a prescription and they don’t have to admit that they need help. Self-medication and all…
Spoken like a true sage. This is very true in my experience. Most guys I see come in in their late 30’s early 40’s have lost almost everything before they come in. It’s very sad.
Actually, AA most famous oneliner is [Keep it simple stupid] or K.I.S.S. I choose to think it works because of it’s ease and simplicity. As has been stated in this thread ad nauseum that the supersticious part of AA is not it’s most illuminating factor, or the single purpose it works for so many. It’s a paradox many get hooked up on and sadly some find dibilitating to ever get over.
First of all, Joe and Kalhoun, do you want to hear something REALLY amazing and unbelievable?
I was NOT an atheist when I came into AA 16 years ago.
I am not bullshitting you, dudes! I was not exactly a Christian but I believed that some God was listening to my prayers.
I actually became a declared atheist over the years as a result of reading various materials and thinking for myself. All the while attending AA meetings on average twice a week for 16 years (do the math). So if AA brainwashes people into believing in God, they sure do suck at it!
By the way, I am a popular as a speaker at meetings. At some meetings we share individually each saying what he wants for 5 minutes or so. And at other meetings called “speaker meetings” (these are the ones that are open to non-alcoholics) one person gets up and speaks about his life and experiences. I regularly mention that I have become an atheist over the years. I have yet to see anyone be bothered by this in my audience. And if they are bothered, the traditions of AA clearly say that is their problem and they have no right to correct me or give me advice.
All an atheist like me has to do to go to AA and remain sucessfully sober for 16 years now is to be tolerant of the fact that other people may think other ways, that other people see their higher power as God, or Allah or Jesus or whatever.
Evil Joe asked to whom do I pray? Good question. Reminds me of the atheist whose tombstone said “All dressed up and no place to go.”
By the way, if you look at anotgher thread I started in GD, I clearly say that intercessory prayer has no power to change anything. In other words, there does not appear to be some great God out there who listens to our pleadings and cures grandma’s tumour.
What I do is a form of atheist prayer-like/meditation, every day. One of the major slogans in AA is “Think, Think, Think”. I would no more want to go without my daily meditation than without my daily shower or my daily crap.
It does not matter if anyone is listening “up there”. My gut instinct is that there is NOT anyone listening, which is why I am an atheist. But do you know something? I am not omniscient. There may be some power out there that is radically different from the ridiculous vengeful God of Christianity who gets his own son nailed up because he is offended by what humanity does, and who drowns millions of innocent children in a world-wide flood.
My belief in God is like my belief in Bigfoot. I am pretty sure there is no giant, apre-like humaoid living in the Pacific Northwest. And I would be astounded if anyone ever actually found one or cpatured one. But my mind is not 100% decided on the matter. It is 99% decided. The other 1% is there in case someone brings me some evidence that I can accept, someday.
But don’t get me wrong. My use of my prayer-like meditation is NOT founded on that 1%. It is because of what a quiet time of meditation and contemplation does to and for ME. That is why it does not matter a whit if no God is out there listening.
Take the famous “serenity prayer”. When I meditate I say “May I have the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.” Other people say “God grant me the serenity. . . .”
I sometimes meditate ten or fifeteen minutes a day on the serenity “prayer”. Theists see it as something that God grants, and I see it as something that I acquire. It makes no difference!
What makes a difference, and where all the benefit lies, is in each day, delving deeper and deeper into what is meant by those words, and applying them to myself. It is impossible to explain meditation. You have to try it.
Valteron - are you close to CT? I’d love ot have you speak at one of our meetings.