Well, again it’s a matter of perspective. I don’t worry about those things that you seem so worried about. If my boss fires me (something that is HIGHLY unlikely) then I will go and get another job. I actually have decent medical insurance, and my kids go too very good public schools. No complaints. I’m hispanic and I think I pretty much HAVE an equal opportunity if I work hard. Which I do. As far as security in my retirement, I invest heavily, have a large 401K, and I’m not counting on the gubberment too provide for my retirement. Having all of that extra disposable income that would otherwise go to the gubberment means I can take care of this stuff myself…and probably retire early (I’m currently shooting for some time in my mid-50’s)
I would feel uncomfortable and confined when the government, who I generally find inept, is taking care of me in the fashion you seem to crave. I would absolutely hate and resent living with the things you list so glowingly as things you like. Just as, I would presume, you’d feel about living here in the US and dealing with how it is here.
I don’t think archaic, unenforced laws necessarily indicate a country’s freedom. The BBC recently released a poll of the most ludicrous laws in the UK, including that it’s illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament. I wonder if they have the death penalty for that?
You seriously think this? So what do you think would happen to someone in the US if they announced they don’t support the war in Iraq? What would we hysterical Americans do to such a person? What social and legal sanctions would that person be subject to?
Honestly, it can be astounding the misconceptions some of you foreigners have about America.
I can’t speak for Asia, but from what I know first hand of Holland (I’m Dutch) and the rest of northwest Europe, I’d says the differences in individualism are minimal, culture-wise. Minimal, but I must agree that there are differences. For instance, if you are rich enough in the USA, you will have more freedom, more power and more privileges, then if you have the same amount of cash and live in Northwest Europe.
Also, **Pleonast ** has a point, in that Holland certainly allows less religious individualism/eccentricity within the country. I can’t imagine a European equivalent to some outlandish religious practices, like the Mormon polygamy where families marry off their sixteen year old daughters to 40 year old guys. there would be too much public outrage; we’re too feministic and too atheist. And the governmetn would heed that outrage, as there is no powerful fundametnal freedom of religion in play.
Another example is that Holland does have its own religious sects (Eastern religions and Scientology rather then Christian-based sects, though). But they all seem to be watered down versions of the American ones. If they get too cut off from the world, the government raids them and either makes arrests or sends in a batch of social workers.
As for the other brands of eccentricity, I think it’s just easier to be really weird if your yard is big enough so your neighbours can’t see in. If you have your own stretch of forest or your own valley, even more so. And owning such an amount of physical space, believe me, is a rare thing in the Netherlands. The country is one big suburb, and anyone living in the woods will usually have to allow a dozen frequently used hiking trains over his land.
:eek: The other day, in a very public restaurant I actually said I disliked Bush and that the war in Iraq was a stupid fucking adventure that the US should never gotten involved in.
I was quietly escorted from the building and beaten with wet noodles in a back ally until I was willing to go back in and say what a great guy Bush was and how wonderfully the Iraq war has gone for the US…
What about the Dixie Chicks? A couple of yahoos declared they weren’t going to listen to the Dixie Chicks any more or buy their records or go to their concerts. And two years later they’re selling more records and performing more concerts. They lost some of their fans, but gained new fans and were lionized as courageous defenders of free speech.
I think they would say that being “patriotically incorrect” on the eve of the Iraq invasion cost them a heck of a lot of money and more than their share of death threats. At the time of the prewar hysteria, speech was most definitely not free in the US.
:dubious: Completely ridiculous claim. Bob…both you and I heard exactly what they had too say. Despite their anti-war, anti-Bush speech. If it wasn’t ‘free’ then, you know, we wouldn’t have heard it. See?
The fact that PEOPLE (i.e. their customers) might have taken exception too what they were saying and decided too take their custom elsewhere really has zero to do with free speech. The Government didn’t stifle them…didn’t censor them…didn’t ban them. Some PEOPLE decided not too by their records (while others who probably never gave them a second thought before decided to give them a try). See how that works?
As for costing them money…do you have a cite? If so…does your cite indicate that the money they lost was due to their stance on the war/Bush…or due to normal trends in pop culture type bands? IIRC, they are making more money now than ever…but if you have some indication this isn’t so, please provide a cite so we can take a look.
Regardless, even if they have lost all of their money due too their stance ( :dubious: ) it still has nothing too do with free speech. Quite the opposite IMHO.
xtisme, while Bob’s statements are rather hyperbolic in nature, I do think that examples about societal taboos in other countries (e.g. those given about Korean society earlier in the thread) may be legitimately countered by a similar example about the US.
Getting off the radio playlist costs money, simple as that.
So being critical of Bush cost them money and death threats, just as I said. Being known as the “Dixie Sluts”, and “Saddam’s Angels” isn’t exactly good for business. The message from a small but vocal minority of Americans was clear- support the war, support Bush, or it’s going to cost you.
So the idea that the government can arrest you for belonging to a religious sect that’s “too cut off from the world” makes you feel more free? :eek: Am I missing something here?
Bob…your article is from 2003. It’s been 4 years since then, ehe? Do you have something a bit more up to date?
Oh, I think there are plenty of such examples here in the US. I just don’t think this is one of them. I see this as more an example of market forces in the US at play…and a bit of (well thought out) hype by the Dixie Chicks that had the result of boosting their long term sales and market share.
I apologize if my cite was from the height of the patriotic frenzy that I was referring to. How many people didn’t come out against the war after seeing what happened to the Dixie Chicks? Not only was their speech suppressed, but many others that we’ll never know about. At this same time, the American media walked away from their watchdog role and stopped asking the hard questions that needed to be asked. The press had become the tool of this outlaw administration. Market forces can stifle expression just as much as jackbooted secret police.
