It doesn’t seem to me like you’ve worked in sales. You have a margin to work on on that sofa. Let’s say the lowest I could sell it for is 500.00. I retail it at 750.00 which is our “sale” price. You come in having shopped around and drive me down to 600.00. I’m not thrilled, but I’ve still got a BIT of play to work with. If I give you the extra 100.00 off that item and you buy nothing else, I get a shitty commission, AND chewed out for letting that item go for the minimum.
Now, suppose instead I say that 600.00 is the best I can do. You know that you aren’t going to get a better deal, having shopped about. You could get that deal at Gary’s down the road, so you ask me what could I do to earn your business? I offer you things that have value to YOU, but don’t cost ME much, like purchasing an extended warranty for free, or throwing in that neat lamp or piece of art you liked, or comping your delivery. You ARE getting the best deal, because no one is going to knock any more off the price of the item than I am anyway.
By treating me courteously, you’ll get extras, and we both go away happy enough. If you act the ass you can take your business over to Gary’s and get the same deal with no extras.
If you think that you can go back and forth until you get that 500.00 price, be my guest, but a lot of places will simply turn away your business at that point. Customers who do that are more trouble than their sale is worth to us. Usually because they are single item purchasers who complain about everything, and try to stick the company for every tiny thing. They are also the ones who want CASH refunded for anything. My delivery was ten minutes late? I want money back. The delivery guy farted in house whilst heaving that 500 lb solid mahogany entertainmrnt center? I want a refund! Take it back!
I don’t know how much you saved, or how much your time is worth, but I have to wonder if all that searching was worth it.
When I work on cars I bill my time at $100/hour. Teaching I bill my time at $60ish/hour ($500/day)
Hypothetically let’s say this eight month quest for the best deal saved say $1000. If it were me, and I invested more than 10 hours over the eight months (car repairs) or over 16 hours (teaching) I would be losing money. :smack:
It’s kind of like a story my dad told me as a kid. I saw an ad for something that was on sale in the newspaper. I wanted him to take me there. He pointed out that the place with the item on sale was about 25 miles away. He said when he first got to California, he saw an ad for sunglasses from a place on San Fernando Road. (which ran about 3 miles from our house). So went to buy some. He then found out that San Fernando Road is a very long road. He said he drove over 30 miles one way to save $1.00 on a pair of sunglasses. :smack:
Point is there is such a thing as false economy.
If you don’t already deliver for free, I’m shopping elsewhere. Plenty of furniture stores around here will deliver to my apartment for free as a matter of course, not as an add-on.
Gary doesn’t require haggling for free delivery. He always offers it. I therefore do not consider free delivery to be an ‘extra’, and you calling it such does not change the picture for me at all.
And if I know that 500 is the lowest you can actually sell it for, that’s what I’m going to go for. Your commission being shitty doesn’t matter to me. I’m not shelling out an extra hundred bucks for something because you want more commission. Bottom line is, when you claim that 600 is the lowest you can go, you’re lying. I know it, and you know it. You don’t want to sell it at all? Fine. Someone else will, for 500, and I’ll get it from them.
Hypothetically? How bout actually? I got 4,500 off the sticker (3,000 below the initial ‘this is the lowest I can go’) and knocked the financing down to under 3%.
Most of this was done over the phone. They’d call and say ‘How bout this deal?’ and I’d say ‘Call me when you can meet the numbers I gave you.’ My old car was in good running condition and did not need any repairs of note during that time. Normal gas and oil changes, that is all.
This is true even in the RV market. The best salesman where I worked made his money off of his customer base and referrals from those customers. He rarely did a “lot walk” to look for customers. They came back to him because he treated them like people and respected their wishes. A good salesperson in the vehicle sales business works with customers to find something they can afford (that is, can qualify for a loan on), and that meets their needs. I actually talked people down from a motorized RV to a tow-behind, based on what they planned to do with it. And while people don’t like to talk about their finances, without that information everybody is wasting their time. It was quite an education for me, I can tell you. And by the way, folks, it’s not called “bullshitting”, it’s called “grinding” the customer. It’s a poor tactic and not one I employed. I had customers come in and say “I’ll talk to anybody but that Danny asshole” (he was relentless with people).
Unless you have intimate knowledge of stores suppliers cost, margin goals, and mark-ups at the time I don’t see how you would have any idea what a bottom cost on your purchase would be. You could get a good guess by doing research and shopping around, but nobody is going to tell you the absolute rock-bottom price on anything.
You got a good deal by dealing with the owner at an auto dealership, good for you. Considering it’s a major purchase I’m not surprised. That doesn’t work everywhere though, and it certainly wouldn’t fly at any furniture store I know of RTG, Kanes, LZB, and Haverty’s would most likely politely decline your business for a single item purchase.
The point though, is unless a salesman is treating you poorly and giving you an obvious crock of shit, your attitude is just as shitty, and without provocation. You Ought to try being polite but firm before you scream for a manager or owner. You might come off the better for it. I got loads of customers good deals, that were polite to me. People who acted like you I had little time, or inclination to work for your business or get you the best price. What is my motivation to work for an ungrateful, condescending, confrontational asshole of a customer, that assumes right off the bat that I’m a no-nothing dickhead? My commission? Fuck that. I can make a shit ton more by working hard for my good customers, getting them the deals YOU want, since they purchase multiple pieces.
The problem with catsix’s theory is that it is based upon the mistaken notion that the customer is always right, and the assumption that the salesperson should kiss their ass to get their business. Nu-uh, sorry. Take your sorry ass down to someone else’s shop, I don’t want your business. Seriously. Walk. Go.
The other flaw in her reasoning is that she assumes that because she surfed around the internet for 1, 10 or even 100 hours that she knows more about my product than I do. Not true. She absolutely knows more about her situation, but it’s unlikely that she knows all of the options that I might have for her, and by treating me as an adversary I’m not going to make any effort at all to help her find something better that she might not be aware of. I had a client like this a couple of months back. We were dealing with the state high risk pool, so the options were limited, but he gave me a list of the routine expenses he had and wanted me to help him sign up for the most expensive option. I looked at the list, did some quick math and realized that he would spend about $2K less per year just on his routine stuff and even more if he needed any major treatment during the year with the HSA option, but when I tried to mention this to him he might have been quoting catsix verbatim “I did the research, this is what I want, either sign me up or I’ll go do it myself”. I signed him up. He’s going to waste at least $20K in the next ten years, but at least he can brag to his friends “I sure showed that damn salesman a thing or two. You have to be firm with those assholes, they just want your money”. Dumbass. Catsix doesn’t want to deal with a salesman, she wants to deal with an order taker.
That’s part of the assumption in dealing with any negotiation. Any number they give me is inflated, even if they say it’s ‘rock-bottom’.
If they don’t want my business, they don’t want it. I don’t take that personally. I’ve yet to find any situation where nobody is willing to take my money.
I’m not going to kiss a salesman’s ass to get a good deal. I’m not mean at all. I just consider my interests first and only. You don’t want my business, that’s fine. There are a lot of other options out there.
And you’re going to sit around telling someone how they can actually lower your profit?
Yeah, I do. And if your attitude is that anyone who doesn’t want to listen to your pitches is a dumbass, then I can’t say as I’d want to do business with you either.
We bought our last 4 cars from the same salesman. Each time we told him what we wanted, he told us what he could get for us, and showed us his “best offer” - a detailed listing of the price including his profit. We have no objection to someone earning a living, the numbers make sense to us, and we couldn’t hope for an easier deal with the car dealership closest to my house. Pretty much a win/win in my book.
The WORST in my opinion are the salespeople who ask “Can I help you?” And when I tell them what I want, they proceed to try to read the display info. In such instances I’ve been known to say, “I guess you can’t.” In my book there is no excuse for a salesman not knowing their stock.
Which is precisely the crux of the problem. There are those of us who don’t want your “professional service”, we don’t want you to help us learn about the products, we simply want to know what you have for sale, and what the price is. Commissioned salespeople are middlemen. They add uncertainty to the transaction (we won’t tell you the actual price) in order to benefit themselves (get a higher price get a higher commission). This in no way benefits the consumer. I agree 100% with **catsix ** that commissioned salespersons are my adversary. I am forced to deal with car salesman (I was one for a while and always felt dirty and hope I never have to do it again) if I want to buy a new car because the dealerships have inserted themselves between the manufacturer and the customer, and won’t let go of that position. They do this not because they are courteous professionals looking out for the best interests of the customer…but because they’ve found a way to take a cut of a transaction that could proceed perfectly well without them. This is why I will only buy used cars from private individuals for the rest of my life if I can.
If one does need help with a transaction, they should hire someone, for a fee, to help them do research on the transaction and secure the best price/product. It is highly inefficient to require all customers to pay a transaction cost (a commission) for “services” that many do not want (and some even despise) and from which only a few will benefit.
This goes double for realtor commissions but that is another thread.
Salesmen…look at your own posts in this thread. You make it clear that your goal is to make money from customers, either on one transaction or on many transactions over a period of time. That is your goal…so please don’t pee on my foot and tell me it is raining. You are NOT looking out for my best interests. You are looking to make as much money from me as you can. If you are trying to make that money while providing me with a “service” that I neither request nor want, then you are simply an impediment to my successfully completing the transaction.
If anyone believes that commissioned salespeople can be expected to act in your best interest please read “Person Finance for Dummies”, the subject is treated at length.
You are making an incorrect assumption that **Weirddave ** would actually be lowering his profit by recommending something that would better suit his customer’s needs. I doubt this was the case at all.
In this instance you are a complete idiot. Seriously.
I understand that there are a load of dog and pony show salesmen out there. You are missing out by treating people poorly. I never required anyone to kiss my ass, simply treating me as a human being there to assist them was enough. My job was to assess the customer’s needs and help them find the best product to fit them.
What a normal human being would recieve:
“You want the “ooh-lahlah” sofa in blue microsuede #326b, No problem. Did you know that we can change the colors on the legs? Oh You DIDN’T? That’s probably because you can’t see those options online. Well we can, and it’s FREE. Oh these legs match much better with your farmhouse flooring than the stock ones? Great, glad I could help Mrs, Jones. Incidentally, that blue 326b has had some issues in the past regarding light fading, you said you were putting it in your sun room, are you sure that’s the color you’d like? 326 D is almost exactly the same shade and doesn’t have any issues that we’ve been made aware of. Is it any more? hmm…nope, it’s the same cost category. D it is then. Now, I know you aren’t in the market for a chair today, but just so you know, the “ooh-lahlah” will be discontinued in June, see the drop date? If you want the chair later you’ll need to order by then okay? Great, Let me explain what the warranty covers, and I’ll have you out the door.”
None of that cost Mrs. Jones a red cent more, and she found out a lot of stuff that she wouldn’t have otherwise known. Turns out she’s getting a better product too.
What Catsix would get:
“One “ooh-lahlah” sofa in blue 326b. That’ll be $xxx.xx, I’ll call you when it arrives.
Your welcome Catsix have a good evening.”
(Customer leaves)
3 months later: WAHWAHWAHHHH my color faded! I can’t get my chair! The cat scratched the wood and they won’t fix it! Your company sucks! WAHWAHWAHWAH…
Your Doctor Phil-esque philosophy aside, you do NOT want to deal directly with a manufacturer on anything.
oh you have a problem with your Ford “Compinsator” that is under warranty and you’d like it fixed? No problem, ship the vehicle to our plant in timbuktu, and in 8-12 weeks one of our technicians will take a look at it. Of course you’ll have to allow time for it to be shipped back to you.
Good salesman are out to make a customer a “client for life”, not a one time smash and grab. Sorry you haven’t run into one yet.
Why can’t all of this simply be put into a brochure with the rest of the information about the product. Add the cost of producing the brochure to the price of the item (much less than commissions I’m quite sure). If you’re not around (like we’d prefer) then you wouldn’t have to worry about hearing any bitching.
I don’t want your “service”, I don’t believe your “service” is designed in any way to benefit me, please don’t try to force me to purchase it. I will always try to avoid commissioned salespeople because I fundamentally don’t trust you. The fact that you try to convince me that you are there in order to safeguard my best interests, when that is so clearly not the case, convinces me that my lack of trust is justified.
First off, NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING will ever stop the bitching.
That aside, Do you seriously expect a company to be able to provide up to the week, copies of brochures for hundreds of different products, with thousands of options that all affect the other options availability, in enough quantity to give away to any customer who comes along? Be reasonable, even websites aren’t usually updated that quickly.
I can understand not wanting service, and wanting to pay less for stuff. I’m out of sales, and back in my proffered field. I’d like to pay less for stuff too, but I also like to have someone locally I can talk with, in person, to help me out with questions and issues.
That kind of service doesn’t come cheap, and companies save money by making them commissioned salespeople. To be frank, i was providing the services of a product representative and a low end interior designer for most clients who came in the door. Paid hourly, that would be worth at least 18-20.00 an hour. No company in their right mind could afford to pay a sales floor that kind of wage, hence commissioned employees.
First of all, that quickly turns into a lot of brochures. Second, there’s information that you may be interested in that the company wouldn’t put on there–I’m thinking electronics here but common problems with the item, upcoming changes that you may want to know about, similar products from other brands, responses from other customers, that sort of thing. There are salesmen out there who want to help you–that gets them not only the sale but hopefully your repeat business.
I DO NOT WANT THEIR “HELP”. From decades of researching and executing my own purchases I have found myself able to make my own decisions without the input of a commissioned salesperson. The “help” from a commissioned salesperson is generally to steer the customer into the product that pays the largest commission. THIS IS NOT A BENEFIT TO THE CONSUMER. The information from a commissioned salesperson IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED since their primary goal is NOT to help the customer, but to take as much money as they can (again, either on one sale or on a series of transactions over time).
Have you ever wondered why the only “Financial Advisors” who recommend mutual funds with loads (commissions) are the ones who stand to get the commission? Every unbiased source of financial advice recommends against these funds. But those “Financial Advisors” are just there to “help” you with your investment decisions, right? Bullshit.
If a consumer needs help with a transaction they should pay a fee to someone who can help them with the transaction. It is highly inefficient to have every consumer pay for this “service” when it is neither wanted nor needed. I won’t pretend that commission sales will go away, but I will avoid them whenever possible, and I’ll call bullshit when the, “We’re just here to help you in a mutually satisfying relationship” crap is trotted out.
Hmmm…an up-to-date brochure for hundreds of different products, with hundreds of options…produced in a quantity that I could give it away to any customer who wants one…and perhaps even mail them to people as a means of advertising my goods…then include the cost of this magical brochure in the prices of the products…
Impossible you say…but I’m determined to invent such a thing…and I will call my creation…
I’m not sure about “ever”, but not much, certainly. I think my statements are pretty clear that I’m talking about retail, cars, real estate, and consumer products…as stated by the OP.