People have similar but quite varying definitions of what it means to be a spoiled brat. In general though, societies seems to (from what I see) despise this in teens/young adults more so than opposite; being a ‘bum’.
From attending two high schools, a comprehensive non-religious one and a quasi-Catholic school respectively which was known for being very strict, my experience has shown me that the students in the former school were more empathetic despite doing drugs, drinking, clubbing and perhaps not being ‘as respectful’ to teachers as the kids from the Catholic school. They were also less emotionally troubled than the more disciplined kids (IMO).
Understandably there are people who are on the extreme side of bratty behaviour and can’t function as normal adults like the Influenza kid but those seem to be the exceptions. I certainly believe it a hell lot better than having grown up with parents/teachers/other adults/support structures that offered no help at all or the only help is ‘tough love’. What do you think?
“Being spoiled” isn’t merely being helped/supported. It’s being encouraged to believe that your wants and feelings are always more important than anyone else’s. Do I know anyone who was spoiled ? Yes, my bitch sister ( to whom I am currently not speaking). My mother pretty much has always given her what she wanted and defended her no matter how wrong she is. She literally has no friends. She decided this past Saturday morning that she was too sick to attend my daughter’s wedding on Sunday. The doctor was “treating her as if she had pneumonia”, although she had a clear chest xray and a 100 degree fever and she wasn’t hospitalized. Neither my daughter nor I heard from her Saturday. Or Sunday. Finally, at 9 pm Monday , I get a message from her saying " I don’t know what you were told about why I wasn’t there". After a couple of more ridiculous messages explaining why she couldn’t have told me when she messaged me about something else on Saturday, I blocked her Facebook messages and unfriended her. Conspicuously absent from these messages was an apology for not calling my daughter on Saturday, wishing her well, expressing a wish to be there , etc. Guess who is wrong according to my mother, who is now blaming me for her “family falling apart”? Because our other sister hasn’t spoken to bitch sister in years, not since she was at the hospital when our father was dying and complaining that she couldn’t stay much longer , so now all spoiled sister has left is our brother, who will likely cut her her off next month when she won’t show up at his daughter’s graduation party for fear of encountering me or my daughter.
My mother really didn't do her any favors, but neither one of them sees it.
I think you are mixing up two main, unrelated things. Mainly because “spoiled” isn’t a rigidly defined label, when it comes to people. Also, you don’t seem to realize that there are a HELL of a lot more factors involved with how a given child behaves, than how much money their parents have, or where they went to school.
Most of the time, calling someone “spoiled” is an attack/insult act. We say someone is “spoiled” because of HOW THEY ARE BEHAVING NOW. Not because of how they were raised. Some people get more privileges and less responsible parenting than everyone else, but through their friends and other contacts, end up fine after all. We don’t call them “spoiled,” unless they ACT spoiled.
Why does she have no friends? One would believe that she would find similar ‘company’. Is it a behavioural issue?
Personally, I’d rather have a relative who is spoiled than one who is depressed, low self-esteem going into drugs etc.
I agree. I think spoiled and brat are used interchangeably which seems to be incorrect. A brat is typically a kid who behaviors in a highly inappropriate manner whereas a spoiled person is someone who is excessively lavished with financially, emotionally, physically usually at the detriment of others.
That would be the opposite of the kind of person she could be friends with. If both parties think their own feelings/desires are the only thing that’s important how can they possibly be friends?
Generally spoiled people can only be friends with people who are willing to put the spoiled person first. Always.
WRT to your OP, as in all things it’s not black or white. In the extreme cases where people continue to support their adult children (and this is true whether it’s staying in your mom’s double wide well into your 30’s and 40’s, or your wealthy parents paying your mortgage, credit card bills and your children’s private school tuition) the adult children never really learn how to be adults themselves, they typically lack initiative, don’t have goals, etc. And eventually become a burden of society in general when their parents die or finally give up on them.
But this is primarily the fault of their parents, for not expecting more of their kids.
There’s two different things here. Parents can ‘spoil’ a child in the sense that they give them things and otherwise make their life very easy. However, that doesn’t guarantee that the child becomes ‘spoiled’ in the sense that they expect life to be easy, that they can’t deal with adversity, that they are unable to achieve for themselves. The act of spoiling or doting by a parent doesn’t always result in a spoiled or bratty child. All of us are spoiled compared to others less well off, if we eat everyday, have a place to live, don’t wear rags, then we are spoiled in comparison to the poorest people in the world. The spoiled child, the brat, is one who expects to always be treated well for no reason, has a sense of entitlement that is not deserved.
There are many people who are jealous of the things other people have and they desire, it doesn’t make those other people spoiled. It often means they don’t appreciate what they do have, and are spoiled themselves in a way, unable to attribute their dissatisfaction to themselves and blaming it on the good fortune of others.
I think you need to replace “spoiled” in the OP with “laxity” or something like that. You’re contrasting a “lax” comprehensive school with a “strict” religious school.
To me, “spoiled” connotes not less stringency in rules and regulation, but actual coddling and over-indulgence. A spoiled brat expects to be rewarded for not breaking the rules because they’ve been raised with this expectation.
I think your perceptions may be the result of confirmation bias and confusing correlation with causation. For one thing, a comprehensive school (which I’m assuming is public) will have a much larger, more diverse student body that’s representative of the general population than a smaller, less diverse student body of a private school. If you subsample any population in a highly selective fashion (select the offspring of individuals belonging to X religion, making Y amount of money, who don’t want to rub shoulders with Z demographic), it’s likely to be comprised of more “weirdos” than if you subsample in a less specific way (select offspring of individuals who just want an education without spending a lot of money). Also, empathy and compassion are developed through experience and exposure. A public school kid is more likely to know someone who is of unfortunate cirumstances than a private school kid simply because the former is more likely to be exposed to a broader spectrum of humanity than the latter. And this would be the case regardless of the level of discipline either are subjected to.
It would not surprise me if it turns out that people who are raised in extreme authoritarian environments have more difficult empathizing with others. If you’re raised where everything is either right or wrong with no shades of gray, then you can’t help but to see people as either “good” or “bad”, with no allowance made for mitigating circumstances. But I don’t think this is good argument against strict discipline. Empathy is just one positive attribute. Work ethic and self-control are others. In the kind of society that we live in right now, these virtues are much more valuable than empathy.
Whether a person is spoiled is a function of that they perceive themselves to need. Many people are spoiled in one respect, but deprived in others, and many appear spoiled to those who envy them for the one thing they do have.
I was born in the USA,. speaking English fluently from birth, and raised by responsible, honorable parents, who instilled a respect for education and common sense, and the recipient of the fruits of an excellent gene pool. This by itself makes me horribly spolied by any standard.
Neither my parents nor I were ever economically wealthy, but careful attention to frugality has led me now in my old age to have more money that I shall ever need, without ever having had to “work” for it (as opposed to showing up in the morning at a job site).
When I travel abroad to Somalia or Kyrgyzstan or Cambodia, I of course have the appearance of someone who is spoiled, although I try consciously not to be. But I am, I have had an easy life dumped into my lap that those people cannot even dream of. No matter how hard they work, they will never have in a year what I get for my monthly retirement pension, which in the US qualifies me for public benefits. Just by accident of birth, like everyone else who is perceived as spoiled.
This is one of those George Carlin situations, where the people on both sides of your own comfort zone are crazy. That said, I err on the side of indulgence. I think a lot of people withhold too much affection/attention/agency from kids for fear of “spoiling” them. I teaxh a lot of kids, and I’d rather my son feel a little too entitled to those things than not entitled enough.
Echoing some of the thoughts above, there’s supported and made to feel positive and good about yourself and your abilities and general self-worth, and there’s spoiled that takes it to a degree that hurts you or those around you.
I was raised with expectations that I would do a good job and wasn’t praised or told I was anything special. I was given everything I needed materially and taught manners, ethical behavior, etc., but I wasn’t made to feel like I was “all that”. I have low self-esteem and am very risk-averse. Some of that it inborn and some was part of how I was raised and by whom.
I can kind of see what the OP means by lax vs strict; when your actions are regulated you feel like taking chances and trying to do something special is risky and might not end well.
But ultimately, the person themself is going to either use or abuse the support and encouragement they get.