Funny how quickly the world has fogotten that Bush was not elected in the normal fashion - the voters split down the middle so closely that it had to be settled by the courts. So, please do realize that every time you state “The people you elected” to an American you have a 50/50 chance of being wrong
There’s plenty of us over here who are, frankly, ashamed of the conduct of some of our elected officials and are eagerly awaiting a chance to vote the jerks out of office.
Sorry, it wasn’t my intention to blame everyone for the election results. I was simply trying to point out that there are things individuals can do to influence world opinion, and voting is one of them.
Sure… but the US administration and many of its Isreal-lovers need to realize that Isreal is losing what “moral high ground” it had by its government’s actions in regards to the Palestinians. It foolish to pretend that Isreal is blameless - it isn’t. And Sharon’s recent unilateral capers just demonstrate what the US’s unilateralism is a bad example and a detriment to international relations in the long run
Truth is, both sides in the Isreali/Palestinian conflict have the blood of innocents on their hands. Until both sides are willing to admit this there will be no peace.
The manner in which removed Saddam was morally wrong - lying about and fabricating evidence in order to provoke a war with a nation that had not attacked us is unethical and morally wrong. Yes, Saddam was a Bad Bad Man and long term his removal might be a good thing for Iraq (as long as worse doesn’t take his place) but it doesn’t make what the Bush administration did right, correct, or justifiable.
I feel trumping up evidence to start a war for personal motives to be even more reprehensible than what occured at the Watergate Hotel during the Nixon adminstration and should have had at least the same consequences, if not worse. The lies of the current administration have killed and maimed thousands of people. That should have consequences.
I agree. In fact, it is so unlikely that this will occur that I haven’t bothered to form my own opinion on whether or not the ICJ would be good or bad for the US - it just will not happen due to cultural reasons that aren’t changing any time soon.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with this one, too - except in this case I feel we should have bought into it. Those who scream about the impact it will have on our industry don’t seem to consider that it will have that impact on everyone’s industry who signs on, so the playing field would be level again.
Nope, I think it may be time to ban landmines. I mean, we signed on to banning chemical warfare, the Geneva convention, etc. Are those always followed? No - niether are they in other places. Landmines arguably kill and maim many more civilians than soldiers, and we’re the biggest supplier. I question how useful they are in war as we currently fight it. I’d like to see the US not only stop exporting the damn things, but provide much more assistance in removing them from Third World countries. We invented them, sold them, used them — we have a certain moral obligation to help remedy the ills they cause.
Did you mean treat every nation as equal? Hmm… well, what do you mean by “equal”? Do you mean that small nations have the same right to have their borders, laws, and customs respected as larger nations? Yes, they should be equal. If you’re talking about equality in trade partnerships? No, they’re not.
This, in my opinion, is something a lot of other countries just don’t get, although this quote comes close to the issue. Let me explain for ya’ll:
It’s a cultural difference between the US and other countries
The Chinese eat with chopsticks. The Japanese bow a lot and have tons of social rules regarding interactions between people. The Saudis stop everything to pray five times a day. Germans drink beer. The French drink wine. Britain has a monarchy. The Americans have an unnatural affection for their flag.
It’s no more crazy for Americans to wave the flag than for the British to sing “God Save the Queen” and support a monarchy. Yes, I’m aware the monarchy is not universally liked in the UK - well, some Americans refuse to fly the flag or even burn it from time to time.
So, while you may or may not regard American culture as something wonderful, please just accept that the flag thing is part of it. I realize some question whether a unique American culture exists - well, it does, and this is part of it.
I hasten to remind folks once again that not all Americans favor the death penalty and some of us would genuinely like to do away with it. Nor is there a death penalty everywhere in the US. For example, it doesn’t exist in either Wisconsin or Michigan. Michigan has never had the death penalty. Yes, there are now Federal crimes where it applies, but discussing that would get into how our government is structured and I’m not sure I want to go that far OT.
I’ve seen a number of people here say that the US foreign policy is the fault of our current administration, not the population, and I agree with that. However, if we re-elect the current administration, we will have announced to the world that we as a nation agree with the things that this administration has done - including the lies, the unprovoked aggression, the dismissal of the rest of the world’s attitudes as important, etc.
The rest of the world has started to seriously fear us, and that is new. I don’t think there was any time in the twentieth century (we weren’t a serious world power prior to that) when other nations feared that we would unilaterally attack them. But some do now, and if you don’t believe me, just look at North Korea’s response to the Axis of Evil speech. I’ve seen some people on the boards talking about the “success” of the Iraq war in getting Syria to disarm and so on. Well, please remember that North Korea’s response was exactly the opposite, and they are a far more potent threat than Syria ever was. Unless we also don’t give a “rat’s ass” if they take out Japan and/or South Korea…
Nations that are afraid start doing extreme and irrational things. I agree that we can’t allow other nations to actually dictate our foreign policy (although we seem to expect to be allowed to dictate theirs at times), but those of you who are indifferent to the world’s attitude toward us as a nation are being both arrogant and utterly foolish. Yes, we’re probably capable of being economically self-sustaining, but not without a huge drop in our standard of living. And while we have the most powerful military in the world, it is close to useless in dealing with guerilla type warfare or in preventing terrorist attacks.
Oh, and with respect to the “jealousy” thing? Yes, there are certainly people in other countries who are envious. Not jealous. But they look at our disproportionately high share of the world’s wealth and use of the world’s resources, and they resent it. Whether you think that’s justified or not is irrelevant; the fact is, resentment is one step short of anger, and angry nations, like fearful ones, can do extreme and irrational things.
Those who think we are immune to the effects of the rest of the world’s fear and anger need to start thinking a bit more clearly. We’re a small share of the world’s population. If a war were to start in which it was us against the vast majority of the rest of the world, we might survive, although given the disparate populations, that’s questionable. But the American life you know and enjoy would be over, as every resource we had would be poured into the simple effort of defending ourselves.
You know, I was moved to tears when, shortly after 9/11, The Star Spangled Banner was sung during several British church services, and outpourings of solidarity came from around the world. I wonder how much of the same would happen today. We’ve taken all that good will, and basically thrown it back in these people’s faces. Don’t be surprised when it’s not forthcoming the next time.
Please read the OP again. It’s about being upset or not about people hating us. No mention of respect or trust.
Have we had the great Bush oil conspiracy yet?
It seems to me that in the main there are two major anti-American blocs: the Islamosphere and Western socialist intellectuals.
The Islamosphere won’t stop being anti-American even if America were to stop supporting Israel. Why? Because America is successful and they’re not. They see American success and their own failure. Instead of getting off their arses and working, they’ve turned to Allah in the form of Wabhabi-ism and nothing has happenned.
Western socialist intellectuals are anti-American because America is proof that Socialism is rubbish. They daren’t criticise the Islamosphere for fear of a fatwah. America seems a soft and easy target and it infuriates them that America ignores them and continues to succeed.
America should continue to put its own interests first and foremost.
I should add that outsiders mistake the often rancourous American political debate for weakness.
One thing that really pissed off Iraqis and others was the reaction of US officials to the public revelations.
Abbas Kadhim, a PhD candidate at UC Berkeley and an Iraqi, wrote [9 May 2004] in the Opinion section of the Los Angeles Times: “Donald Rumsfeld in trying to dilute the seriousness of the misconduct, [for US consumption, said], ‘My impression is that what has been charged thus far is abuse, which I believe, tecnically, is different from torture.’”
Kadhim went on to write, “Such a technicality might impress and Army judge. But for a proud nation shocked by photograpshs depicting the sexual abuse of its men, it represents callousness and insensitive rationalization in the face of a moral quagmire.”
As to the effect on US interests, Clinton’s quibble about the meaning of ‘is’ pales into insignificance.
Somehow, in dealing with external affairs, the administration has to get beyond the election.
My experience in Asia has been much shorter, but otherwise similar to the above. Although I’ve run into anti-foreigner sentiments a few times, it never seemed specifically anti-American. I have, however, often had new acquaintances and even strangers on the street tell me how much they dislike Bush. They don’t seem to blame the ordinary American for Bush’s actions and policies, but they do think he’s stupid and dangerous and they can’t see why we put up with him.
Really? I don’t think I’ve ever had a Japanese person say anything negative about Bush to me, even during the hostage situation.
If this is the sort fo deep insight Americans have, no wonder so much of the world thinks we’re arrogant fools. The sum total of people’s problems with us is because a) they’re jealous! and b) they’re lazy cowards who just want our attention!
If that isn’t towering hubris and callous blindness, I dont know what is.
The reason’s people in the Middle East dislike us is not because they hate democracy and hate our wealth (god what ridiculously self-centered, self-flattering, and narcassistic an appraisal that is!), is that they hate the fact that until now we’ve discouraged democracy, worked to keep tyrants in power, and radically affected their lives without giving them any say in the matter or any real thought to what affects it has on people. We were, don’t forget, among the oppressive colonial rulers that the Iraqis fought off in the first place to gain their indepedence. We then meddled in their government, and helped promote and support Saddam’s bloody rise in the aftermath. Now we’ve come back to take out our former protege and just re-colonize them all over again. Whether that’s accurate or not is besides the point: THAT is how they see us, not some goofy tripe about them hating our wealth.
I would even be willing to say that the outcomes of American presidential elections often end up affecting the daily lives of foriegners far more than they affect the daily lives Americans. And anytime somene has great power over you, and you hve no say in it, there’s bound to be a lot of resentment.
You know what? A popularity contest is exactly what we’re in. The moment you were born into a world where you have to trust others as a matter of fact (your doctor, your barber, your parent, the guy standing behind you in line) popularity became a major factor in your continuing survival, not to mention your genetic lineage and future thereof. Don’t care? That’s your problem. There’s all kinds of people out there who enjoy taking risks with their lives, and that’s their own business. But foreign policy effects everyone’s livelihood, and the very future of humanity. Our current policy seems to reflect your carelessness regarding our world standing, and frankly that scares the bejiblets out of me.
Ask any pedophile in prison, the nature of public opinion has a direct effect on your chances of survival. The only real question is, what do we do about it?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that was a British point of view there. I also believe it is likening (and thus mischaracterising) much European opposition to US foreign policy as racist anti-Americanism. Personally, I oppose the current US regime’s foreign policy, but not for the reasons qts has stated. Unless he does indeed mean the racist form of anti-Americanism, in which case I vaguely agree.
Correct. I’m British and resident in Britain. As for the racism angle, sorry, but people are reaching here. Certain elements of the Islamosphere are preaching anti-Americanism, but there’s no one racial group. Islam is practiced by Asians, Arabs, Africans, and Caucasians. And Malays. And Persians. And …
Yes, many times. Students, the extended families of my Japanese friends, a couple of schoolgirls who stopped me in the park, all kinds of people. They always test the waters a bit first with “What do you think about Bush?” or “What do you think about the war?”, presumably so as not to offend me if I’m Bush’s biggest fan, but once they’ve established that I’m not they proceed to tell me how much they dislike him. Before there was even a Democratic party nomination, I had some of my students asking me if I’d be able to vote in the next election and urging me to please vote for whoever would run against Bush because “You have to get rid of him!”
I don’t think Americans are hated at all. Except, maybe, by some extremists - in whatever form.
I have noticed, though, that some people who dislike American politics are falling over their feet to grab any negative news about America in order to rub some salt in the wounds.
Jealousy? I don’t know. Certainly some kind of gloating. Like: The giant is down, let’s kick him when he’s on the ground.
It sickens me.
Lamia: Although I’ve run into anti-foreigner sentiments a few times, it never seemed specifically anti-American. I have, however, often had new acquaintances and even strangers on the street tell me how much they dislike Bush. They don’t seem to blame the ordinary American for Bush’s actions and policies, but they do think he’s stupid and dangerous and they can’t see why we put up with him.
I’ve had the same experience here in India, and so have other Americans I know here.
Jealously is not the reason why people have a problem with America.
A lot of people do have problems with Americans from my experience but it’s in the same way people have problems with the French(well Parisians to be more precise). A lot of Americans can come across as arrogant ignorant assholes and since there’s 250+ million of you lot you numerically have a higher number of assholes than the rest of us.
There is a lot of anti-American policy feeling going around and rightly so IMO. A lot of Americans agree with these policies so they are in direct disagreement with a large percentage of the western world so some verbal assaults are to be expected.
Americans seem to be a lot more nationalistic/patriotic than the majority of Europeans. The idea of America and what it is to be American is very big in your culture. From what I see a lot of you take it personally when your leader/admin is attacked. You shouldn’t.
It will be interesting to see what happens after November. If Bush is re-elected can Europeans like myself still say that they only have problems with the Admin and not the people since a majority will have voted the fucker back in knowing what he is like?
Another American ex-pat here, and I’ll just echo the experiences of others in that I’ve had no negative comments directed at me personally but quite a few about the current administration. And the American tourists I’ve encountered have generally been an enlightened bunch (or at least relatively amiable); the British have long since taken over the role of World’s Worst Tourists anyhow.
The danger with the US not caring about what the rest of the world thinks of it is that, eventually, the rest of the world may decide that maybe they don’t need the US as much as they thought they did. One or two countries reducing their dependency on the US would hardly make a dent in the US economy, but above a certain number the US might start to worry a bit.
Don’t think other countries can hurt the US? Let’s hope that there doesn’t come a day when you look back nostalgically on the days when gas was $2.00/gallon…
There was a letter to the editor in this morning’s Los Angeles Times in which the writer said that if the abuse of the prisoners obtained intelligence that saved even one US life it was justified.
This is the sort of attitude that pisses people off. A US armed forces life is not per se, in my opinion, automatically worth more than any other and to claim it is, is arrogant.
And of course the blockhead who wrote it seems to overlook the plain fact that the outrage resulting from such abuse is just as likely to cost US lives as it is to gain intelligence to save them. And maybe it is even more likely to result in a net loss of life.