It’s integral in a historical context. As I’ve explained in a previous post, that is ONE line appearing in a document written in 1969 by Chicano/Latino Youth activists. From that document came the idea to bring together various latino political groups at the time (MAYA, MASA, etc.). MEChA’s creation was established by the other document on that site written a few months later called ,El Plan de Santa Barbara. Notice your beloved motto is NOT reprinted there, nor in that chapter’s constitution, nor in its “Philosophy Papers” section.
And speaking of the logo, the words at the bottom of it say “La Union Hace La Fuerza” (“Strength Through Unity”). But I guess that one is too difficult to twist into the racial separatist rallying cry which you are straining to find. As for the “secret plans to unite CA with Mexico”, do you honestly believe that MEChA members in Stanford, Cornell, UCLA, USC or in any school with a chapter are secretely plotting some overthrow or government coup?
Man, even the College Republicans on campus weren’t that dense.
It seems that individual MEChA chapters were and are somewhat divergent. Frankly the one at my University in Texas was probably no more radical that the Green Party, so I can hardly understand what the uproar is about. No one I knew in MEChA advocated separatism or labelled Anglo-Americans as “gringos”. There were even ‘white guys’ of the leftist persuasion who hung out with that crowd at my school or got involved in very similar groups.
Now some of the California chapters (Berkeley) seem a lot more radical than what we are used to in Texas. In the separatist range. If specific evidence shows that Bustamante was involved in separatism and radicalism, then there’s an issue. I don’t support Bustamante one way or another, but one simply cannot judge the situation without an appreciation of the time and place in which Bustamante was a college student.
Finally, aside from a couple of questionable internet sites, what ‘real world’ evidence is there that any Chicano/Hispanic groups have any real connection to anti-semitism. Are “Jew-bashing” incidents by Latinos constantly occurring in L.A.? Where I live there even are a handful of Hispanic people who are “Reclaiming” their Jewish identity - but no anti-semites. I have Mexican Jewish ancestors myself.
If Bustamante was some ‘Aztec supremacist’ nut, then he should have no place in politics, but if we was a college student who wanted to work in a group that he saw defending a minority group, then what’s the big deal? Pretty much any black, or Mexican-American, or Native American college student from that time would be unfit to run for anything by those standards.
The “secret plan” comment was satirical hyperbole. I would’ve expected most people to recognize that.
As for the “por la raza…” line, I’ll agree it’s not a motto. But I still say it has no place on the web page of a group supposedly fighting against racism. What purpose do you think it serves? What if your friendly College Republicans had a position paper on their web site that had a line at the bottom that said “For whites everything, for non-whites nothing”. Would you brush that off as meaningless also?
Sync: I personally don’t think it’s a big deal for Bustamante. Even if some of the more outrageous claims about MEChA were true, I wouldn’t hold his association with that group in college against him. It’s a rare campus group that doesn’t have some radical element associated with it, especially if we’re talking about the timeframe when CB was in college.
And what are those stated goals, Seeker of Truth? Using SJSU as an example, perhaps they might be found under “Chapter Organizational Goals”:
[QUOTE]
[list=A][li]To undertake the responsibilities of uplifting and mobilizing our people through education, economic, political and social empowerment within our community to achieve liberation;[/li][li]To retain our Chicana/Chicano identity and expand our cultural awareness;[/li][li]To take every opportunity to educate our Raza about our historia;[/li][li]To carry out plans of action concerning Chicanas and Chicanos in Aztlán;[/li][li]To recruit, retain, and graduate more Chicanas and Chicanos.[/li][/QUOTE]
[/list=A]
And what specifically did this entail? Well, at UC Davis, there was a yearly canned food drive for the benefit of a local migrant labor camp, sponsorship of a speech by Cesar Chavez, a youth conference for those in the local schools at risk of dropping out, a mentor program for local high school and junior high students, co-sponsorship of a performance by the *Balet Folclórico Nacional de México, *, booth fundraising during the weekly “Culture Days” celebrations held one week a year and educational seminars during our schools “Día de la Raza” during that week.
No Hillel House torching, Young Americans for Freedom member lynching, LULAC/”Hispanic” sellout executing, or fraternity house vandalizing that I can recall. Not even any MEChA militia training. Unless I was in class and missed these (though I probably would have known about them since I was the Propaganda . . err, I mean, Publicity Chair for a while.)
What purpose do I think that one line serves? Well, as syncrolecyne explained, “Raza” is more accurately translated as “people” or “community” and using DanielWithrow more accurate interpretation, I would say its something like “This organization is for the Chicano/Latino community – everything we do is for our community. We’re not building the organization for other folks. It’s for us.”, IMHO
Do I agree with that sentiment? No. I’m just glad it’s not some motto of theirs or anything they currently espouse.
They’re not in some musty document from the 60’s either. They are in the philosophy papers section and have the following notation at the bottom:
**
I’m sure, El Gui, that MEChA does lots of socially useful stuff. I’m also quite certain that the average MEChA member is probably about as separatist as Howard Dean. Nonetheless, there are two points here. First, this is politics. The issue isn’t whether MEChA is a terrorist organization with links to Basque separatists. The issue is whether Cruz puts his foot in it by appearing to endorse a chuckle-headed political philosophy.
The second point is the obvious double standard. MEChA openly avows what in other contexts would be deemed hate speech and racism. I know they’re a bunch of college students and that it isn’t really serious. But Cruz is giving the impression that he thinks it’s cute. It’s not cute. It’s not cute when white supremacists do it. It’s not cute when The Nation of Islam does it and it’s not cute when MEChA does it.
I think that’s what my Spanish teacher would have called a “creative” translation. It’s a shame you can’t just say that the saying is bunk and should be taken off the website. Then there would be no need to mangle a translation to justify it.
It’s already been explained that it’s not about race. Chicanos/chicanas are not a race. It is a social/political identity that addresses historical oppression and aims at creating community.
Cruz’s only “endorsement” that I know of was to say basically the same thing you said in your first sentence: “MEChA does lots of socially useful stuff”.
He’s said nothing (that I know of) about their “chuckle-headed political philosophy”. That does not constitute an endorsement. You’re welcome to present any of his endorsements of such if you like.
*The dispute also doesn’t worry Bustamante’s supporters. Some have even suggested that a hint of a radical past could be a plus for the lieutenant governor, who’s seen as a congenitally moderate and cautious politician. *
Perhaps a good political move for candidates in California is to enroll in the nearest hate group, as this will increase their chances, at least as far as certain voters are concerned.
I still can’t tell what the hell your translation is supposed to mean. It’s so vague as to be almost meaningless. It seems to me you would have to look at it in context in order to make any sense out of it. The context that I see is a political student group much like any other.
So, given that Raza does not refer to a race, can you explain to me why that statement is racist?
**
Fine. You say it’s not about race and I’m willing to be convinced. Please explain or define the following words and statements.
**“Gringo”
“Aztlán belongs to those who plant the seeds, water the fields, and gather the crops and not to the foreign Europeans.”
“We are a bronze people with a bronze culture”
“gabacho”
“we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlán from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny.”
[my emphasis]
That can be said as: Everything for La Raza. But in this case the emotion and feeling of the sentence connotes that they are vowed to do everything to improve their (social, living, economical) conditions. They’re giving their all to do better. That’s the way phrases like that are used in Spanish. In correct Spanish, that first sentence would probably read Por La Raza todo.
Fuera de la Raza nada… This does not mean “For non-chicanos nothing”… It means there is nothing outside of the group… they cannot expect help or compassion from outsiders, they have to improve on their own.
Heh, after replying, I see El Gui address that. In any case, the phrase does not mean “For chicanos everything, for non-chicanos nothing”. That’s a translation someone that does not know a lot of Spanish and cannot get context did.
You don’t need to look at context to translate Raza in the now famous statement. The position paper defines it explicitly:
This can only be taken to mean that Chicano and Raza mean the same thing. Perhaps the best description is “ethnic group” rather than “race”, but it certainly isn’t “community”.
As for “Fuera de la raza”, if you want context to define it, the paragraphs above make it quite clear what the meaning is. For example:
In other words: The Europeans get nothing.
It would be better that MEChA simply disavows association with this whole Aztlan position paper. It can only be interpreted as a bunch of speratis hogwash. It’s not even historically consistent, as the group seems to have taken on the language of the Conquistadors, and accept the languange and political unity that Spain brought to the region, but vilify the gringos who followed.
I agree that MEChA would be better served dropping the Aztlan paper. It’s xenophobic, contradictory, and too devoted to internal politicking and paranoia.
And for those exact reasons, no way in hell some outside gringo like me is going to persuade them to drop that paper.
However, it’s a long damn way from having an extremist position paper and from being a “hate group.” When was the last time:
The KKK held a canned food drive?
Aryan Nation worked to tutor disadvantaged kids?
Identity Christians sponsored a nonpolitical dance group?
How does the saying go? By their fruits shall ye know them? MEChA is a radical student organization, sure – but until I see some evidence that they’ve engaged in any violence as an organization, I reject the characterization of them as a hate group.
Especially given their passages about how Chicanismo isn’t a hereditary thing, but is something anyone can join in. That’s not a passage that has equivalence in Farrakhan’s speeches or in the Turner Diaries.
Finally, the “translation” of the passage isn’t creative, John Mace: it’s the only interpretation that makes sense given the surrounding paragraphs. It’s in the middle of a paranoid screed about how other organizations are trying to co-opt MEChA for nefarious purposes, and about how they fight those groups. It’s not in a passage about putting gringos up against the wall.
Yet you take the position paper out of context as well and seem deaf to anything on the website that sounds rational, scouring it only for seemingly shocking quotes instead of trying to understand what the organization is about.
Yes, they are trying to establish a cultural ethnic identity. As I said, it is in response to historical oppression. The fact that this oppression has largely been carried out by Anglo’s is hard to miss.
Do you deny it?
How else would you suggest they address it? Shall they pretend that their skin is not brown, that they don’t face discrimination not only for their appearance but for their culture and ethnicity?
Here’s some more context:
So basically they want a political power base that empowers their communities and allows for the free expression of their culture. MECHa accomplishes this by working within the University to create a safe space for Chicanos/Chicanas and a means by which they can empower their communities. I don’t find that to be seperatist.
A few posters have pointed out to the good that some of these groups do for the community. If in fact, the group is parading racist/seperatist mottos and ideologies, then one can not excuse this behavior, by pointing to a few good deeds also carried out.
Hitler vastly improved the infrastructure of Germany, including the autoban, and employing vast amounts of people. I hardly think this excuses his racist policies. Hamas also provides services for the palestinians, when they’re not busy blowing up children on buses.
(Enphasis added)
THAT was posted a while ago and you continue to parrot like that was not important at all, concentrate on Mecha at least, Anybody trying to establish a link with Bustamante and Aztlan shoud deal with the fact that Aztlan is on record of calling Bustamante an enemy.
GIGObuster, I’m not trying to make any link between Bustatamnte and Aztlan. I agree that the statement showing Aztlan.net’s viewpoint of Bustamante, shows that they do not think highly of him.
I was merely pointing out a flaw in the rebuttal.
So, I think it has been established that Bustamante himself is not affiliated with any of the “extreme hate” groups, but there is still the question of what exactly MEChA stands for, and why he refuses to renounce his affiliation with them.
I find his arrogant stance on the matter, to be doing him more harm then good, but I suppose time will tell.
Familiarize yourself, honey, with Godwin’s Law. Since I’m guessing you don’t know about it, I’ll do the courtesy of pretending that you didn’t just lose the debate on a technicality, and I’ll continue it.
Once you’re familiar with Godwin’s Law, come back and point out the actions MEChA has taken that warrant a comparison to Hitler. Have they held canned food drives, but secretly been gassing gringos? Have they tutored students during the day and assassinated political rivals at night? Have they begun a Final Solution for white people in “Aztlan”, involving genocidal murders of those they consider enemies, and only sponsored dance performances as cover for their atrocities?
As I said above, facta, non verba. Deeds, not words. Show me where they’ve ever hurt a fly, and I’ll consider whether they qualify as a hate group. But a poorly-written, decades-old isolationist screed doesn’t qualify them for the moniker.
It’s a shame you can’t just say that the saying is bunk and should be taken off the website. Then there would be no need to mangle a translation to justify it.