It’s not rude. It’s hostile.
Unfortunately there’s no choice for “Yes, it’s obvious. Nobody had to tell me.”
However, when someone is being a bold-faced liar, being impolite might be the right thing to do. That said, I can’t recall ever saying, since childhood. Generally, it’s better to focus on the disputed fact: “No, that’s not true,” as opposed to “No, that’s not true, and I know you know it.”
However, it’s different from a punch in the nose. One is possibly slander, the other would be assault.
The context I get this most often is when I’m sharing information from an article i read. They usually say something along the lines of “cite?” Or “I’ve never read the article therefore i think you are making it up.” I suspect this is a defensive mechanism to hide their own ignorance yet assert their own superiority, because when i produce the article in question, they immediately act dismissively and change the subject. This happens so often i don’t even bother looking for the original article anymore, because i know its a complete waste of my time.
My OP is asking if calling someone a liar is considered so lightly that accusing someone of it is considered normal conversation and/or something that is not supposed to piss someone off.
I agree with the posters above who say the statement should be questioned for validity, not the person. What I usually say is “did you mean this instead of what you said?” And then i try to restate their words for clarification.
Calling something as you see it doesn’t mean it’s not rude.
I never understood the mentality that it’s ok to say what you want because you’re “only telling the truth.”
Calling someone a liar is rude whether its true or not.
What if the way you see it is wrong? Another context is at two people are remembering the same event. One person is fairly sure something happened, while the other person is 100% positive it did not happen. Why is it ok for the first person with the faulty memory to call the second one a liar even though its “as they see it”? Or, if this example is too confusing, the first person doesn’t remember if something happened or not, while the second person is 100% positive it did?
As a side note: is calling it as you see it regional? Where was it taught?
I don’t see “cite?” as calling someone a liar. A lot of people are guilty of unintentionally spreading misinformation that comes from dubious sources. Asking for a cite is not calling someone a liar, it is just asking for the source information so you can form your own opinion.
The second part of your paragraph probably just relates to people not liking what they hear, which is definitely rude.
Wait, you seem to be acting like “Cite?” and “Liar!” are equivalent statements. Do you consider them equivalent?
This.
Yeah, it’s rude in that it is likely to cause offense. But not all circumstances call for Emily Post politeness. If someone is being provocative for the sake of it, I will call them a troll. If they are being racially bigoted, I will call them a racist. And if they are blatantly lying, then I will call them a liar. I don’t suffer fools politely.
To clarify, my example of “cite” is a paraphrase. I haven’t heard anyone use it in real life outside of sdmb. Its just easier to type. Essentially i get the equivalent of “put up or shut up.”
It’s rude. But then sometimes it’s appropriate to be rude.
I sometimes use it to say someone is dishonest, but more often I use it because I think they’re giving an inaccurate paraphrase of their source, or else their source is problematic. FOlks have sometimes asked for cites from me, and when I look them up, I realize I was misremembering.
I think it was in the Big Kahuna that Kevin Spacey made a big deal out of calling another character a liar, although I’m having trouble finding the scene (it’s not hte “finish my soup” scene, it was something else). That scene resonated with me, and made me realize that calling someone a liar was a pretty big deal.
I’m doing some research on lying, would anyone consider rhetorical slight of hand (eg straw man argument, red herring, no true Scotsman, etc) a type of lie?
Agreed. I think there are usually better ways to address someone who you think is lying to you rather than flat-out calling them a liar.
Using rhetoric in a debate isn’t the same as a flat-out lie.
I was having a dispute with a contractor on a construction job that I was overseeing.
It was clear as day that he was lying to me, and had deviated significantly from the contract documents.
As the words were leaving my mouth: You’re [lying]
He cut me off: I’m what. Say it. I’m what?
It became clear that if I uttered the l-word, them’d be fightin’ words, even though we both knew he WAS lying to me.
As puzzled by this logic as I was, I tiptoed through the remainder of the encounter by implying it, but not saying it.
“What I CAN believe is [the facts at hand]… , however, what I can NOT believe is [the bullshit he was spilling]”
I have since learned not to try and reason with liars. I state my position, write my report, and leave.
Not trying to offend, but that implies that before this incident (assuming you had a supervisory position and thus at least mid to late twenties or older) you called people liars without hesitation?
Yes, it rude though people would rather call a lying, dishonest or unprincipled person a bastard where I live.
In my research, im finding this as well. In some areas lying is such a normal part of life that it is considered the average, so much so that people naturally assume the first answer to any given question is false. Therefore, calling someone a liar would have no effect because everyone is expected to lie.
not very sure. ‘Liar’ doesn’t always have a negative connotation here so bastard is used more which is almost always negative. Here’s an Indian song onJhoothi (liar girl).
Liar and bastard both are negative words. I am guessing ‘bastard’ is more popular because a lie can be sometimes be a useful lie, harmless lie or a lie spoken for fun. But both are negative words and with bad type of lies, dishonesty and knavery are also usually associated, so people use another word (‘bastard’).