How is this question relevant?
The line is going to be that they didn’t realize she needed help. I thought that was obvious.
Fine. She died from dehydration, not septic shock. And the ICE people held a glass of water over her head and laughed as she tried to reach it. And Donald Trump himself literally forced a father to drag a child across hundreds of miles of desert just so that they could watch her die.
There. Got the spin that you want now?
No.
Fuck blaming ICE, Trump, or our immigration policy. This happened because a fucking douchebag dragged his daughter hundreds of miles in an unsafe and unprepared manner to commit a crime against our country.
The crime being crossing the border?
Things are pretty bad in the countries these folks come from; he was probably seeking safety for his daughter.
And will only get worse if Trump gets his way WRT cutting aid.
It may be bad, but he was the one that endangered her by going on the journey.
There are plenty of people in the US that need help. The infrastructure of the US is deteriorating quickly and needs billions in repair and upgrades.
So, the father doing something wrong means we are absolved of any responsibility of care for the daughter?
In what world is this right?
There is a dead child, and the concern is over the crimes of the father, rather than the well-being of the child. No matter who has the greater responsibility for creating the situation, at the end of the day, it is our basic fucking duty to care for the child. And no matter how you slice it, we failed at that duty in one way or another.
And how can evangelicals still support this travesty? This is basic Cain and Abel level shit. “I am not my brother’s keeper” level shit. It is appalling this is the very argument being trotted out.
The child would not be dead if the father didn’t take her on this journey. It is 100% his fault. Quit trying to shift blame so this guy is a victim instead of the cause of his daughters death.
Trump and his enablers want to cut that as well.
But we know nothing. For all we know they did help, did get her water and food, were concerned, but didn’t realize how dire the situation was until she had a seizure.
Given how little we know about what happened during those 8 hours, whether or not she “looked thirsty” isn’t exactly a useful question.
This thread turns out to be a great guide for populating my ignore list.
And yet one of the first thing Trump did was cut taxes…
I have a great idea… How about we review the FACTS in this case, and not freak out before doing so?
The family surrendered to U.S. Border Patrol
During initial screening, the father handled all talking.
He signed a form with his daughter’s info, acting as guarding/parent. Information of the information given on the form was thing like name, age, any any current medical issues/state of health. This form indicated the daughter was healthy.
She was not checked by any doctor or medic at the initial detention point, that was to be done at the detention center the next day.
The family was NOT given food or drink, but they WERE given access to bathroom facilities, including a functional water tap.
.
The morning after their detention, while they were being bussed to the detention center, the daughter started vomiting. When the medic checked her out, she appeared dehydrated and had a very high fever (105.7). While being examined she started having seizures.
She was airlifted to a hospital, where she died about 24 hours later of septic shock.
When she was taken to hospital, she was separated from her family. (why? unknown)
The announcement of her illness and death was delayed until the family were notified, which took a week (again, unknown why so long. Did someone misplace files??)
.
False allegations posted previously in this thread:
" Is eight hours too long to go without being offered a drink of water? " is bullshit. They had access to good water.
“If the girl’s chance of survival at that point is 1 in a thousand, you take her to the fucking hospital.”… they DID take her to fucking hospital.
" To what extent she was in visible distress, or whether her parent was asked about her health, or if her parent knew she was ill, or if she was given water or food, we simply do not know."… nope. we DO know. The father stated that she was in good health, and signed the form attesting that. If she was obviously ill, the father is at fault. If she was not obviously ill, to the extent that her father did not notice anything, then no quick check by a border agent would have detected it. A full medical examination would have detected the problem, but they did not have the facilities there. U.S. border authorities DID have the facilities to check them out thoroughly, and that is precisely where they were being bussed to, when the medical emergency occurred.
.
This death is sad, tragic and regrettable.
But to point fingers and froth at the mouth while making false allegations about it, will not help us to prevent this from happening again.
Regarding electrolyte depletion, I would thing that instead of destroying water cache, ICE should be adding Gatorade to them.
Americans are historically the Good Guys. We are supposed to be helping people, not killing them. If the expected water cache is gone, I don’t think these guys have the option of turning around and going back, it’s too far without water.
I wonder who caches the water.
Again, so what?
It’s his fault. What does that change?
My toddler pisses on the floor. Not my fault. Still my responsibility to clean it up. Bitching about whose fault it is doesn’t turn back the clock nor does it clean the piss from the floor. And if I waited to start cleaning it up, the rest of the family would be justified in telling me off for it.
I don’t give a rat’s ass who gets assigned what percentage of the fault. I do care that we our responsibilities should include ensuring our procedures are appropriate to preserving human life and that our personnel follow those procedures. If that’s the case here, fine. But if we can do better (including an evaluation of the procedures for determining the health of children taken into custody), we should do better. Their deaths might not be our fault but they are certainly our responsibility, you fuckwit.
Are you indeed? Maybe you should try being just “pro-truth”. You know, without any “angle” of “alternative facts” attached. Truth doesn’t actually have “angles”. Because from the few posts of yours that I’ve seen elsewhere, and then again in this thread, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that you’re a right-wing imbecile who misses no opportunity to defend Trump and his criminal cronies.
If you care about truth you can start by carefully reading and maybe even comprehending these quotes from earlier in the thread. By totally catering to his racist and xenophobic base, Trump is the most racist and anti-immigration president in living memory. Submitted for your attempted comprehension:
(emphasis mine)
I sort of see it as a large group of people claiming that Hitler killed 50 million Jews, and I sort of step in and say, “Yeah, Hitler’s a terrible person, but we should keep our criticism grounded in reality. He didn’t kill 50 million Jews.” And then the claims come forward that I’m a Hitler sympathizer. Others suggest that even if he didn’t kill 50 million Jews, the fact that I’m pointing it out means I’m a sympathizer. If I was truly not a dyed-in-the-wool Trump supporter, I would go along with the detached-from-reality claims being made by his opponents. Pointing out truth becomes a partisan endeavor, somehow.
Ignoring the fact that the Obama administration used tear gas at the border about once per month, I’ll try to address the point head-on. The argument seems to be that enforcing our border more strongly means more people will die, because those people will take more risks to avoid capture, and those deaths are our fault. This is sort of like arguing that putting up barb wire fence around my property means I’m to blame for more injuries from people trying to climb over the fence, and those injuries are my fault.
It’s think it’s a dumb argument.