There’s an article on Cracked talking about different forms of sexual harassment that are seen as normal behavior by society.
One of the items says this:
I disagree. The premise that seems to be at work here is that all sex is sexual harassment; that a woman can never participate in a sexual act because she wants to do so. And I feel that’s ridiculous.
What women get in return for flashing at Mardi Gras are plastic beads. These obviously are not a real reward. No woman has ever felt forced to flash so she can earn the plastic beads she needs to survive. This isn’t about food or shelter or a job opportunity.
So if a woman is flashing for beads, the reason she’s doing it is because she wants to flash. And if a woman wants to flash her body, how is it sexual harassment? It’s not harassment when it’s a voluntary consensual sexual act.
I will agree that it’s harassment if the crowd is trying to intimidate or coerce a woman into flashing. But as long as the woman is doing it by her own choice, I say it’s not harassment.
Perhaps a more interesting question would be whether the women who flash are committing sexual harassment. I guess the idea is that if you are on the street during Mardi Gras, you consent to women showing you their boobs more or less unsolicited. But I’m not so sure we should be comfortable with that logic.
I have a lifelong platonic friend (well, since I was 16 and she was 13), way better looking than me and with four husbands and countless boyfriends in her past, who used to flash me from time to time just for the hell of it, usually when I’d open the door after she rang the bell. Sort of like a way to say hello, I guess. We are buddies and there has never been a sexual element to our friendship. Some women just like to flash their boobs.
A more apt 5th Dimension lyric in 1969 would have been “This is the dawning of the age of victi-im-hood…the age of victi-im-hood…VIC-TI-IM-HOOD…VIC-TI-IM-HOOD”…
Chiming in with the female voice: the part that’s sexual harassment is the part where women, any and all women, are urged to to show their tits. Loudly, repeatedly. With voice and gesture. In the parade and on the street. It’s expected, expected, that she will comply. Not ok.
If a woman chooses to greet a friend by flashing her breasts, and he’s ok with it too, that’s between them.
No, victimhood was when we didn’t fight back or say anything. I would be lying if I said I was sorry that things aren’t as “fun” now that women and others are speaking up for themselves. The ones who seems to be whining right now is you, and others in this thread who want things to go back to the way they were.
If a man demands that the woman flash, and she does so, and he gives her beads, then he was the initiator; arguably he’s the harasser.
If a woman flashes unsolicited, and expects to be given beads, then she would be the harasser, not much different than if a man pulls down his pants in public and exposes himself unsolicited.
If I worked somewhere where every man I met asked to see my tits, I would have a legal case for sexual harassment. Reverse it. If I showed my breasts to random men at the office, they would have the same case against me.
No woman (or no man) should feel that they are being forced to expose themselves. But they should be able to choose to expose themselves when it’s in an appropriate venue (if you don’t want to see naked people you shouldn’t be on Bourbon Street during Mardi Gras).
What’s the alternative? We start telling women that they’re not allowed to flash? Even if they wish to? That seems a lot more oppressive to women than letting them flash.
You’re misrepresenting the article. The title is “Insidious Ways Society Encourages Sexual Harassment”. It’s possible for something to encourage sexual harassment while not itself being a case of it.
In any case, this is one of those cracked articles that is made up entirely of user submissions so it has about as much validity as and random topic on the SDMB but you should at least take efforts to represent an argument fairly before trashing it.
Look, someone posed a hypothetical, I’m answering it. The fact that a bunch of men can’t see the blatantly obvious is astounding. I’m aware that this is traditional and someone will, sooner or later, argue that a female should expect this at Mardi Gras because this is what happens at Mardi Gras. That wasn’t the question, however.
There is a tradition in the Netherlands that involves a character called Zvarte Piet, or Black Pete. People dress up in blackface and run around pretending to be black. It’s traditional. It what you do. It’s fun. Another tradition that is being challenged as times change.
As long as those making the request do nothing more to force her (apart from withholding the plastic beads), I don’t see why it is not OK.
There are situations and venues where it is OK to make sexual or semi-sexual suggestions to women. If you go into a bar with a reputation for being a meet market, it is kind of pointless to complain that men keep trying to get you to drink with them and ultimately to go out on dates.
This doesn’t mean it is OK to catcall a woman on the bus on the way to work or anything like that, because the context is different.
It is very well known that this sort of thing happens at Mardi Gras. If you don’t want to be asked - not forced, asked - to flash your boobs, don’t go to Mardi Gras, or go, and don’t flash your boobs.
Of course she can if she wants to, which is what I said. The part that’s harassment, and which can’t be removed from the event, I also listed. It’s the males (and likely other women) who are constantly exhorting females to show their tits.
