Also known as antinatalism, it’s the belief that having a child is a net negative and is really just forcing a being into the world against their choice to experience guaranteed suffering, pleasure not being a complete guarantee. It’s also argued that while there is pleasure in life, it is far outweighed by the negative and it is further stated that it would be better to never have been to begin with.
While this does seem like a gross oversimplification of life to me it’s hard to argue against their points. Not everyone gets born into a situation in which life is worth living. Human existence is pretty harsh, being aware of further pain and your own death, boredom, and of course excessive thinking. It’s not a greatly popular movement and one wonders if that’s what they think why not commit suicide? But they make a strong case.
It seems to me like it is. It’s odd how we have a debate about free will and determinism but we birth out copies of us without giving any choice to them.
Also I’m going to need a bit more than “I don’t agree”.
Well, you need to offer more than what you’re offering. I highly suspect that if you were to poll people and ask them “Do you wish you had never existed at all?” the VAST majority will say “No.” So what does that tell you?
Now if you can offer up a poll that indicates that vast majority of people do wish they had never existed or any kind of evidence that most people find existing miserable, well then maybe you have something.
Not having children is the norm for my family – my parents were childless, I am without heirs, and my daughters are very likely to follow suit. Our lives are much better for never having existed, as the high potential of suffering clearly outweighed the possibility of joy.
Is that sort of argument ad populum? I mean, there are a great number of people who struggle to make ends meet and have trouble feeding themselves. They also don’t have the comforts that I assume people posting on here do. It’s like a gamble with human life when having a kid. They could end up deformed, or have a mental condition. Plus what about in the past when suffering was greater than now? How could it have been rational to birth children in such times? There is simply no rational reason to birth a child.
Except it’s not the same thing. It’s not selfish to not have children, it can even be argued that it’s moral since it stops suffering from being perpetuated by birthing more children.
No it isn’t. You’re claiming that people that exist are miserable and their existence harsh, so harsh in fact that they would prefer not to have existed at all. I say, prove it.
And the answer is always the same; most people don’t see the world like you do, and you appear to be clinically depressed. You’re going to get the same answers here.
Here some some counter evidence for you (but don’t think this takes you off the hook for supplying some evidence yourself). A survey of 50 terminally ill patients found that:
8 had attempted suicide and 4 had suicidal thoughts. [1]
12 out of 50 in terminally ill patients many of whom were in a lot of pain.
But that’s just the number that no longer want to exist, not the number who wish they had never existed. We can reasonably assume that this number would be lower.
You’re hypothesis that life is so miserable that it is not worth existing is not going to hold up very well to any kind of rational analysis with respect to how people really think about living. I think most people are quite happy to exist, and have had the good fortune to exist, even with bouts of misery.
[1] Hinton, J. (1972). The Psychiatry of Terminal Illness in Adults and Children: Psychiatric Consultation in Fatal Illness.
Speaking in the very strictest of terms: Yes, the decision to have children is selfish. I doubt there was ever a couple in the world that decided to have children for the sole reason to propagate the species.
The flaw in your reasoning is, you assume all “selfish” acts are by default, negative. They are not. A loving couple deciding to have a baby so they can share that love WITH the baby is not a negative thing at all. In fact, it’s quite beautiful.
And the benefits of having a child are well worth the risks of any negative connotations you mention in the OP. Both to the couple AND society at large.
In the past, your children were your workforce, street gang, and retirement fund. Having lots of children was entirely rational for an agrarian society with high infant mortality. Somebody’s gotta work the farm.
