I’m reminded of the Southwest Airlines “eeny meeny miny moe” incident.
I grew up using that rhyme with the phrase “catch a tiger by the toe.” I never heard, nor knew existed, a version with “catch a n___ by the toe” until the above made the news. (I’m white, mid 50’s, grew up in a genteel suburb of a major city.)
I can understand a black person who was aware of the n-word version being taken aback, taking offense, and suspecting at least racial insensitivity, if not outright racism in similar circumstances. What I cannot understand, and do not accept, is the notion that just because YOU know such-and-such, it must be that EVERYONE knows, or SHOULD know, such-and-such. You cannot know that which you have never been taught or exposed to.
Had I used “eeny meeny miny moe” like the flight attendant did, it would have been in total innocence of any racial connotation, something I know for a fact since I know what my thoughts and knowledge are. Anyone insisting otherwise would have been wrong, and I would have lost all respect for their judgment.
I think it’s understandable to take offense at the use of “Buckwheat” in the OP scenario. I don’t think it’s defensible to take further offense at the apology unless there’s some evidence supporting the notion that it’s insincere or an attempt to avoid responsibility. In my mind, a genuine apology is one way of taking some responsibility.
My view is that Skald is right and that sis is going out of her way to feel offended, beyond what the situation merits.
You should be ashamed of yourself. In the language of my people “myriad” means that the next person to post to this thread whose name starts with a D feltches goats… I will simply never forgive this slur - regardless of how many written apologies you extend.
The other thing going on is that some people have a teasing manner where you insult people in a good natured sort of way. The insults are never serious - never meant to be taken seriously. I worked with a gay guy after college and we referred to each other regularly as “slut” and “hosebag” - ok, not the most professional moments of my life - but we enjoyed each others company and these were terms of poking endearment. I come from a family that has these moments - and its something that can be hard to break yourself of (though I’ve really tried - not everyone finds it the ritual of acceptance it is intended as).
I’m 42 and grew up in New England. I didn’t know, until I read this thread, that names starting with “buck” are offensive in the South. I know that Buckwheat is somewhat offensive and can’t imagine a context in which I’d use it, but, quite honestly, that’s more a function of rarely watching The Little Rascals, so none of the characters mean anything to me.
As for your sister, I can totally understand her anger. But if the guy’s apology was sincere, she needs to accept it and move on. As someone else said, she can’t go through life expecting the rest of the world to be completely dialed in to her personal social norms.
Are we still allowed to use the word “stymie”? Does it matter if we use it correctly? Does it matter if a white or black person says it? Does it matter if white or black people are in the room?
I really liked Stymieon The Little Rascals. The most popular kid in America, and he couldn’t drink from white drinking fountains.
Holy crap. Does your sister look like that guy, Skald? Because if she does, I think it may be not just okay but in fact mandantory to call her Buckwheat.
Hell, I didn’t know Buckwheat was a terribly stereotyped racist character until someone so averred in this thread and I checked the Wikipedia page. I had a vague notion the character existed and was one of “Our Gang,” but beyond that I knew nothing; I had him confused with Alfalfa (he was the one who sang, right?). Since the comment was that my sister was the clever one of the group, I can believe that someone else was similiarly uninformed about '30s cinema.
At work once; setting with a group of Black people when one says to the other; “Damn James, you need to go get a hair cut, you look’n like Buckwheat.”
I’m sure you need to know the full context and timing of the conversation to understand why what she said was so funny; but we all laughed… hard.
Maybe it’s just a guy thing but I have Black guy friends who I’ll joke with on a pseudo-racial level, and no offense ever gets taken. Then again, these guys I’ve been close friends with for a long time. (15 years or so)
I probably wouldn’t do that with some one who I wasn’t so familiar. So maybe the guy did know it was a slightly racial slur. But maybe he also felt close enough to her that she wouldn’t take offence?
Meh, I don’t know. The guy in the OP actively seeks friendship with her (a gasp! Black person!) so I too say give the guy a break.
Everyone’s allowed to say something stupid at least ONCE in a while.
Asking if she has a right to be offended is like asking if a person has a right to feel pain.
At the same time, the guy’s apology should have been accepted. He surely sounded to me like he was being honest and emotionally intelligent.
Your sister is “right,” but you are going to be a happier person than she is. After a person has apologized, WTF else can they do?
After a quickie search, I couldn’t find any dictionary that defined buck in racial terms. A buck is generally defined in dictionaries as “the adult male” of certain animal groups.
Adolescent and youngish human males were and are called “young bucks” where I grew up. My memory of its use goes back to the Fifties, but I’m sure it is older than that. These guys were white.
I’m aware of who Buckwheat was and the guy obviously didn’t know your sister’s feelings well enough to be calling her that. So he was mistaken too. Bucky is a new word for me.
Has its use in current rap lyrics persuaded some people that the term is usued only for blacks? Maybe it is a generational thing.
I grew up in Tennessee. I don’t hear the word buck commonly used anymore except in bad scripts. But dialects vary a lot from one end of the state to the other.
Yes, Buckwheat was horribly stereotyped. But I would not assume that all modern-day blacks find him unamusing. Are you old enough to remember Eddie Murphy’s SNL Buckwheat routine? (Of course, 25 years ago may not seem like modern-day to you…Anything after Vietnam is modern-day for me. And I’m not kidding. It’s a matter of perception.
If she was called this name because she is black (and compared to buckwheat because of this) then she could be upset. She should accept the apology though and he should not be so dumb.
I’m the same age and from the same state as the OP, and was unaware of Buckwheat being a racial caricature. I’m also white, and have been called Buck by my dad, and Buckwheat by my step dad, so wasn’t terribly familiar with those terms being racist.
I think his sister is just too easily offended, and too stubborn to let a perceived slight go. The guy apologized and she should move on.
I’m from the Philadelphia region. Reading this thread today is the first time in my entire life I ever heard of any “buck-” related word as a racial slur.
If I used that nickname and a coworker took offense, I probably would have been insulted that they thought I would knowingly use a racist term, though I would still write an apology (no sense getting fired over this sort of thing).
I used the word “Oriental” casually in conversation once and got a weird reaction. Thankfully I only used it around good friends who know that I’m not racist, otherwise I would have been in the hot water Skald’s sister’s coworker is in. I swear I did not know it was politically incorrect.
Particularly if, once ignorance is fought, an apology is immediately forthcoming.
Like Gary T, I grew up saying “eeny meeni minie mo/catch a tiger by his toe” etc., and I was in college before I learned that it wasn’t always “tiger.” (I’m thirty years old, FTR.)
If someone were to be offended by my usage of what was–to me–an utterly innocuous old rhyme, I would apologize…but I would also claim, correctly, that I really had no idea, and no intention to offend.
I don’t blame the OP’s sister for being initially offended, but I also don’t blame the guy in question for his ignorance.
I bartend for a living, and I get a lot of “backhanded compliments,” like people are surprised that I’m an attractive blonde and “just a bartender” and yet I’m intelligent…and they compliment me on it. I find it condescending and offensive, and yet I have to remind myself that they mean no actual harm. In their minds they mean well.
I’ve taken offense where none is meant, in those cases, but generally I have to talk myself out of it and remind myself that some people just aren’t paying attention to the obvious. A slight case of Foot In Mouth Disease. Generally I try to make a joke out of it, because otherwise it’ll just put me in a bad mood.
Skald, you mentioned that the man is a coworker. Did he make the comment at work or in a social situation away from work?
Either way, I’m very surprised someone even made a remark like that. And if it happened at work, he should also know better than to call someone anything other than what they like to be called.
The original question is answered by “yes.” Usually, (and there was a thread with this in it recently) when someone says, “No offense” there’s a pretty good chance that something offensive happened/was said. “I’m just kidding” is never an excuse. You either did/said that, and now you have to live with the consequences.
In general, in situations like this, I think it’s best to inform the person about what was offensive, then politely move on. Otherwise, the other person will dismiss you as being an “effing asshole/bitch” and not change the behavior. (And I think his behavior needs changing.)
And what is the point of calling a black person “Buckwheat”? Why call someone by the name of a character with whom someone shares an obvious physical feature? If a coworker called me Spanky because I’m white and chubby or Alfalfa because I’m skinny or Froggy because my voice is scratchy–damn right there’s going to be offense taken.
(And I’m talking about professional relationships…what two close friends call each other is up to them. But no one at work had better call me anything other than my name, especially in front of other coworkers.)
I lived in Detroit until I was 8 (1972), and looking back, the neighborhood was maybe 2/3 to 3/4 black*. When we had to choose who was “it” for whatever game, we used eeny meeny miny moe, catch a tiger … (along with other ones). I never heard of the other version until I was an adult (and that was probably on this board).
I wouldn’t use it now if I thought first, but it might pop out. But if someone said I was racist for saying that, frankly, I’d be offended. That’s from my childhood, dammit.
ETA: * the rest were white. That’s all there was back then, as far as I knew.
Coming at it from my own perspective, I would take offence, and I usually take such things as teachable moments (“Were you aware that that is very offensive?” “I feel that jokes like that make this space unsafe for people of sexual and gender minorities” etc.), but I would accept a sincere apology, and the person’s apology as you’ve described it sounds sincere. (I would not accept an insincere apology, and I certainly don’t accept “well I just didn’t know, so why are you taking offence?” to which the answer is “now you do know, and if you consider respecting me to be important, you know what to do.”)
I believe that intent is everything,if someone offends unintentionally then they should be told calmly why they have said something that is generally considered offensive and it should be left at that.
Once when abroad with a mixed bunch of Brits a very naughty Scotsman amongst us primed a non english speaking local to address us Englishmen in the group as “You English Cunts” being told that that was the usual honorific by which we were known.
Astonished at first we soon sussed what had happened and who the culprit was but the locals command of our language meant that we couldn’t get it over to him that he had been “had” so we resigned ourselves to being called that until we left his location.
We did however remonstrate quite strongly with the person responsible leading to a cessation of practical joking on his part in the future.(Also a cessation of eating solid food until he got dentures)
My boyfriend and I were just having a very similar discussion! My family is of Irish and German heritage and we are all very fair skinned people. My little brother decided to dress up as Jimi Hendrix for Halloween, complete with black face. I was appalled when I saw the pictures and I was talking to my boyfriend about how embarrassed I am by my racist little brother (who is really, really, really racist all the time anyway, this just being one incident in a bag full of embarrassment) and he said that since he has never heard of minstrel shows or Al Jolston or anything else that would indicate to him that dressing up in black face would be racist that it is possible my brother also didn’t know it was offensive. I argued that my brother is generally an asshole who told black jokes at Thanksgiving dinner and uses racial slurs in everyday conversation and that if it had been someone else I might not have been so upset as it could have been a simple lack of understanding on their part but because of his history I believe it to be a purposeful offense.
My boyfriend thinks I should let this incident slide since there is a good chance my brother didn’t know any better and that is pretty much what I have done, but it still makes my skin crawl to see those pictures up on his facebook page.
