Is it hypocritical to join a church if you don't believe?

Great Debates
21

I am in a somewhat similar situation with my wife. She was raised catholic and has been waffling back and forth for the last few years about wanting to go back to church (and has made it quite clear than when we have children I will have no choice in the matter). However, I left the church for a list of reasons in my late teens, and really have no desire to return, feeling no connection with the philosophy or mythology.

For me, it would feel hypocritical for me to just up and go back. I can’t speak for you of course, but I am fighting it tooth an nail.

22

We use to have a sign on our church that said ‘Never too good to stay away, never too bad to not come in.’ To believe that everyone who attends a worship service is really worshipping is a bit naive, IMO, and to think that because you attended one you are somehow a believer does possibly make someone religious in the negative sense of the word, but still far from being a hypocrite. Now if you are standing there singing with your arms up to make a good impression, I can see it. But otherwise I fail to see how just being there makes you hypocritical.

23

I don’t think there would be any problems attending church as a GUEST and trying it out to see if it appeals to you.

Eventually, though, it will come to a point where to JOIN the congregation you will have to make a public acceptation you believe in the tenants which are professed in the congregation.

I was raised in the same church I now attend. I had a period of ten years where I did not attend because my work schedule and my moving away. So my faith journey has been a circumspect one.

Our church is quite friendly to guests and if you attend one of our services you can pretty much count on being recognized as a guest and greeted by a great majority of the membership. You will find the membership friendly and inviting AND you will also probably get fed real well as we are usually having some kind of dinner or lunch social.

Our worship service is centered around communion at the Lord’s Table every service. Communion is served every Sunday as well as at any worship service.

As a guest who doesn’t believe it may become uncomfortable having this at every service and because taking communion is an expression of our faith, taking it just to fit in IS sacreligeous. We offer communion to those who truely believe and are willing to share as an expresion of their faith. If you do not share this belief though, pass on communion, it won’t be held against you.

In order to become a member though it requires you to profess Jesus Christ as your savior before the congregation and to be baptised in his name. So unless you are willing to do this you really can’t be a member but likewise you will not be shunned either for your non-belief.

It takes some people longer than others to come to believe. So it is assumed while you continue your association with the membership, you are on a quest for faith. However long that quest takes the membership will support you in your quest. Faith is not something that can be forced, it must be found.

Our credo is like this; “I use thought and reason to find my faith and through faith I can then move beyond thought and reason.”

I wish you the best in your pursuit and hope you can find faith.

24

Aaaah! Aaaaah!! Aaaaaaah!!!

[rips out hair]

[spins around rapidly three times]

[falls to ground frothing at the mouth]

25

Well, based on what has been said so far in this thread, I had a little discussion with my wife this evening on the topic.

It turns out that she assumes that most people go to church without actually believing in God. This is because she knows numerous Chinese people (including the aforementioned friends and co-workers) who have “converted” to various Christian religions solely for the social aspects and without even the slightest belief in God or Christ.

God, Christ and organized religion are such ludicrous concepts to her and her Chinese friends, apparently, that they don’t see any hypocricy in pretending to believe. It would be like somebody telling me that if I say I believe in an invisible pink unicorn (just to pull a random example out of a hat ;)), then I can join a club where people will be my friend. Of course, nobody could seriously believe in an invisible pink unicorn, so there’s no harm or hypocricy with going along with the joke.

I told her how seriously most churchgoers believe in what they claim. She was doubtful, but acknowledged that it would be hypocritical to pretend to believe just to be socially accepted.

Regards,

Barry

26

I cannot believe I just read this. You have GOT to be kidding me.

27

While I have absolutely no doubt about your sincerity and goodness, my reaction to this was a lot like TVAA’s.

And godzillatemple, I love the Chinese, including your wife. [sub]Don’t take that the wrong way.[/sub]

28

RoundGuy,

Can you explain the meaning of life? How the world evolved, the universe evolved? Where did matter come from? I don’t think ANY ONE has the answers to those questions. If you don’t believe in Christ that’s your issue not mine.

There is no way to fully explain our being here or for that matter life being here in any form. Is it all just a big accident or is there a purpose we cannot see?

Look at it like this. Could an ameoba explain or reason the existance of humans? Likewise could mere humans explain or reason the previously posed questions?

There comes a point where you cannot explain existence. At that point it becomes a matter of faith. Christianity is faith in Christ. For some that is the religion of choice for others not. I posted here to illustrate a viewpoint and NO I’m not kidding.

I reccommend some studies in philosophy, astronomy, and other scientific thought. All ATTEMPT to make sense of their respective fields but anyone who works in those fields will tell you the more they learn the more they realize there is still an infinitely large amount things yet unknown.

I have to accept that no one will ever know all the answers and have faith in my beliefs, rejoice in the days given me and try to leave this world better than I left it. Is there something wrong with that?

godzillatemple,

I can’t speak for all Christian denominations, only for mine. We believe Christ is our saviour and through him we will have everlasting life. Christ died for OUR sins and there is no way we can lead a sinless life but we can at least try.

You might be right about other churches where people attend merely for the social aspects. I can’t do that. I have witnessed small miracles which can’t be merely explained away. Faith has a way to sustain us but it must be real and sincere faith. I pray every day and even when things have gone against me I usually find solace and a course from my faith in God and Jesus.

You’ve probably seen WWJD sometime in your days. If people subscribed to this thought, I feel the world would be a better place. But alas, that will not happen as long as people think they know a better way. In many religions the same precept is mirrored. Care for others and trust in a higher power. I’m not saying Christianity is better than any other religion so please don’t crucify me on this.

Islam, Hindu, budhism and other religions are viable belief systems and expouse similar general philosophies. The point being whatever philosophy you follow at least have faith in it. But don’t go through the motions with out meaning. It is a disservice to you and the people you are with.

Oh and TVAA I think there is a treatment for that. Consult your local veteranarian. It could be parvo or distemper :slight_smile:

29

No, but to simply say “God did it” and not continually search for reasonable, rational answers to these questions is nothing less than an intellectual cop-out, and a disgrace.

Bullshit. It just means you’ve got to keep searching. Your method is simple, pure, intellectual laziness.

I realize you’re not kidding, and you cannot imagine how sorry I feel for you.

No kidding. So your suggestion is to just forget it all and believe in God, and then everything makes sense? I can’t believe we’re having this discussion. How can you possibly offer this as a rational, reasonable, logical postition for anyone to accept? It’s absolutely ludicrous.

Absolutely not, as long as you leave out the part about faith.

30

Semi-pro hypocrite checking in!

As I have mentioned countless times :wink: I have atheistic tendencies yet go to church, well, religiously. I participate in the services and am church librarian. I like the philosophy of Jesus and don’t much care if he actually existed, much less was divine. I like the company of my co-parishoners because they are good people. Some of them know my beliefs, as they are, and I suspect the pastors have their suspicions but accept me as a seeker of truth.

I want my children to have moral underpinnings stronger than “Daddy doesn’t like that.” I am bringing up my children as Christians because that was how I was raised and because that is the main religion of this culture. Had we been born in India I’d’ve probably raised them Hindu. On the other hand, my oldest was raised WITHOUT a religion and found one for herself.

As for WWJD, it sounds like those people are falling for the same error Adam and Eve did: believing they could know God’s mind, if He exists.

31

SunTzu2U:

Try me.:wink:

32

What a load. You are implying so much garbage with this statement but I don’t know if it’s out of ignorance or not. Do you think there aren’t intellectual reasons for believing what I do? Do you think I’ve turned off my mind, or is it quite possible that people more educated than both you and I have written books that we can read…or do you not think Christians can read? I do continually search for reasonable, rational answers to all questions. But it becomes stupid to keep searching, once you’ve found an answer to a question. The capital of Canada is Ottawa, and it will be Ottawa whether you search for a minute or years to find the answer. There are some things that I don’t understand, but I’ve come to the point that I don’t think I’ll understand this side of heaven. And, whether you believe it or not, faith is the root of any belief in creation/evolution because no one was there, and no one has been able to create something out of nothing since then. I’d rather have faith in God, who has personally shown me His faithfulness. Does that mean I commit intellectual suicide? I don’t think so.

33

Here Here Svt4Him!

RoundGuy didn’t get the point I was trying to make. I’m glad someone actually gave it some thought before posting their perception of what I was saying. I’m not copping out on any reasonable discussion about creation by saying I have a faith in God. I too question existence all the time but I don’t let it consume my life.

I feel that my life is a journey and when I round that bend like everyone else who has died and will die maybe then I’ll have some more answers to life’s riddles. Just because I admit my faith while others don’t or profess to have none is a moot point. We are all entitled to our beliefs whatever they are.

I’ve had this discussion about creation with a good friend of mine who takes the stance that there is no god. We went round for round with this for about 5 hours one time. We both agreed while God’s existance cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt his non-existance cannot be proven either. For the people that think just because someone professes to believe in a divine creator has to be an idiot think again.

I’ve used my intellect to help in my decision on my faith. I am not suggesting dumbing yourself and accept and explain everything with God. What I am proposing is after you have exhausted yourself and failed with all your human efforts in trying to find rhyme or reason to this thing we call the universe why not just consider the possibility of a divine countanence?

You can spend your entire life trying to rationalize or reason your existence or the world’s or universe’s existence for that matter but you will still fall short in finding your answer. If after that you decide to believe in a God at least have some faith and conviction in your beliefs. And one other thing RoundGuy; I don’t need your pity so I must decline your offer.

34

As I understand it, there’s one church that would definately welcome you if you were just searching. Unitarian Universalist. Don’t know if there’s a congregation near you, but it’s worth a shot.

35

godzilla temple, when I was in high school, one of the reasons for attending one particular church in my town was they had a great youth group, at least in some people’s opinion. I’ve not doubt there are some people who attend my church because they’ve got very good programs for families. Being Episcopalian, we don’t go around saying “Jesus” every other word, and I think it would be considered rude to question another parishioner’s devotion. I freely admit that one reason I’m Episcopalian the local Episcopal Church was the one place in town where I could go and not be insulted (the Episcopal church was not the one with the “great youth group”). If you decide to go to this church strictly for social reasons, I doubt you’ll be the only one.

One word of caution. You may have seen me refer to HJay, a dear friend of mine who’s gone from Fundamentalist Christianity to Atheism to Wicca. Since that description’s entirely too long, I usually leave out one small detail. The form of Fundamentalist Christian he was was Catholic. They do exist; then again, so do Charismatic Episcopalians.

CJ

36

This is one of the other things my wife and I discussed last night, actually. We agreed that relying on religion to provide our (hopefully future) children with moral underpinings is simply replacing “Daddy doesn’t like that” with “God doesn’t like that.” A better way, we decided, was to try and teach out children why it’s wrong to do such-and-such, and why it is good to do such-and-such.

I look at it this way… If your 3-year-old child tries to stick a fork in the electrical outlet, you simply tell him to not do it or else Daddy will punish. You don’t try to explain about electricity, since the child is too young to understand. Once the child is older, however, it is not sufficient to simply say “Because I said so” and the child is capable of understanding the reasons why. The same thing should apply to moral behavior. Yes, you tell a three year old not to hit his sister “because Daddy said so,” but as the child grows older you can explain the principle of “The Golden Rule” and how every person he meets is just as deserving of respect as he himself is. I am fully convinced that teaching a child that “God says so” as the reason for moral behavior does NOTHING to help that child become a moral person, any more than memorizing untranslated Spanish phrases helps a child learn Spanish. Yes, it might help them learn pronunciation and spelling, but not the actual meaning of the words.

Hopefully, my background in philosophy and her background of being raised as a good, moral person without reference to God will allow us to be successful in this. When I told my father I dating a non-Christian woman, he expressed concern about how we would raise our children to be good without a belief in Christ (or, at the very least, God). I told him that I didn’t have any belief in God or Christ, and I think I turned out pretty well. He could only admit that I had a point there.

Regards,

Barry

37

Fundamentalist Catholicism to Atheism I can understand, but how in the world do you go from Atheism to Wicca?

38

Atheist does not necessarily mean skeptical or even rational. You and I may be atheists because we feel that believing in any supernatural phenomenon without convincing evidence to support it is irrational. Others, however, may be atheists simply because they don’t believe in God, but have no trouble believing in psychic powers, magic, elves, and fairies.

Barry

39

Yes, but I’ve never quite understood how people go from one religion to another, and especially not how people go from non-religion to religion.

I suppose atheism IS a religion of sorts to some.

40

Well, you may not understand it, but it happens all the time nonetheless. My parents converted from Judasim to Christianity and, I’m a bit ashamed to say, I actually worked as a missionary for a couple of years working to convert people to our religion.

Sometimes the conversion comes about as the result of a perceived “religious” experience (“Can you desccribe how you’re feeling right now? That feeling is the Holy Spirit telling you that what we have told you is true.”)

Sometimes the conversion comes about as the result of, believe it or not, a logical and rational decision that the new religion makes more sense than the alternative. You and I would disagree with the decision, but to some people the thought of a universe without some sort of guiding force or supreme being is irrational

Sometimes the conversion comes about because the person simply wants to be part of something larger than they are, and the offered religion provides a sense of belonging and comfort.

Once again, keep in mind that atheism or non-religion are not necessarily the result of a skeptical nature. There are billions of people in the world, like my wife, who are non-religious simply because they were never exposed to religion. Many of them still believe in astrology, magic, acupuncture, homeopathy, etc., however. Just because somebody is non-religious doesn’t mean they can’t still be deeply superstitious and/or extremely gullible.

Barry