True story: I was a colleague of a woman in grad school who, sometime during the program (one year) converted to some sect of Islam. I have a lot of Muslim friends, female, none of whom wear veils, who talk to, shake hands with, and even hug male friends.
I next saw her at a conference, and of course I offered up a hug (we were colleagues in activist circles, and this was our standard way of greeting, both male and female) and she shrinked away, just sort of saying “I don’t do that anymore.” Which I thought was weird, and I figured I’d misheard it.
I saw her later, we had a conversation, and when we separated, I offered my hand, and again she shrinked away. Apparently she wasn’t supposed to touch any man. Shit, I wish she’d told me that before. I can see why one would get tired of telling the whole “here’s what I don’t do” list, but I suppose I might have been perceived as forcing my Judeo-Christian ways on her. Still goes down as one of the more awkward social exchanges I’ve had, and that’s saying something.
I have done it several times and it has always ended up with me learning something interesting.
It seems to me that the problem is that a lot of people don’t seem to know when it is appropriate. You don’t have to be masive buddies, but you also don’t randomly fire it out of the blue. It is a perfectly reasonable topic of conversation when sitting around having lunch,for example.
It can also help avoid faux pas in the future as well. For example, if i know that a guy is Muslim then i also know not to go on abput the joys of bacon.
I was away from keyboard for a while, but I’m back.
Here’s what I gathered from this thread:
1)The question in the OP: Asking someone out of the blue, at work, about their religion, is not OK. (I agreed to that in post 110 in this thread.)
2)Asking someone what their religion is, in casual conversation, is viewed by most as an invasion of privacy, or something that can make a person uncomfortable. I can agree with the latter, but not the former.
The second example I brought up, about my work colleague having a neighbour come over for an “I’d like to meet you” visit, and the appropriateness of asking about which types of Muslims were a full face veil (the neighbour wears a full face veil) - no one has convinced me that it’s not OK. I belive your manner and motives make a big difference. I have often in my life asked people about their country / religion / customs, including Muslims, and none of these people have ever told me that it was a rude question. Furthermore, many of these conversations have happened in group situations, including friends, and my wife, and those people have no compunction about telling me when I am acting like an idiot.
As an atheist, and someone with an accent, I was not intending to present myself as a persecuted minority. I was just comparing my situation to others in this thread who said “I’m an atheist, and here’s how I feel about it” and “I dress differently, and I’m sick of being asked about it.” By the way, I may live in California, but it’s in one of the most (if not the most) “conservative” counties in California. As an example, I was just at a church campout this week-end and in our parenting group several of the parents mentioned how their UU kids were surrounded by Christians and sometimes felt like outsiders.
Because other people can probably see the exchange. And a man sticking his hand out at a woman is considered taboo in some cultures. It can jeopardize a woman’s reputation, professional or personal; therefore a man with any sense of manners should ask before extending his hand to a woman or wait for her to extend her hand first.
Interesting opinion, as for you to make that opinion known requires quite a bit of hypocrisy on your part (unless of course you are a transgendered goddess?).
You just blew out all my anti-paronomasia fuses. I am now defenseless against puns. You’re lucky I’m a gentleman or I’d shake your hand and thus publicly humiliate you.
I wonder how funny you would think that joke was confronted by a woman that had been horrendously beaten because her family thought that a strange man extending his hand to her indicated his relationship to her was too familiar to be acceptable. Actions can have consequences to others. Why has basic consideration for other people become acceptable simply because the offenders are lower class?
I don’t need permission to do anything. You do. You’ve embraced the idea of cultural taboo, so all it takes is me pointing that out and you should obey those cultural taboos. Sucks to be you.
I (a male) extend my hand to a woman because it’s the courteous thing to do in this culture. The culture I live in, and the woman is either living in or visiting.
If she has a problem with that, all she has to do is not extend her hand in response. A quick glance and a subtle shake of the head would help to let me know it was intentional (as opposed to just not noticing my hand).
It’s not complicated. If you have a taboo against drinking alcohol and I offer you a drink, don’t take it. If you have a taboo against shaking hands and I offer my hand, don’t take it.
