For a long time I have been wondering why it is ok for African American groups to be racist, or at least appear that way. For instance, at the college I attend there are many groups like Minorities in Engineering, Business, etc; but if somebody was to start up a group of European Americans the NAACP would throw a fit and the school would never let it go on. Why are their minority computer labs, only for minority students mind you, and not European American computer labs? Do you not think the NAACP would fight this? Isn’t this spreading racism? Why is it perfectly acceptable to hang an African flag outside your house of apartment, but if somebody hangs a Confederate flag they are considered a biggot and a racist. I do realize that in certain geographical areas some of these do not hold true, but it’s still BS. I’m all for fairness and equality, but until EVERYBODY starts acting fair and treating everybody as such the world can never achieve an equal society. For all the work towards being color blind our society has put forth, it’s high time these certain minority groups realize that in fact they are only spreading racism and work towards uniting everybody, not just favoring their own race!
Countdown until DtC is in here frothing at the mouth because WHITE PEOPLE DESERVE IT FOR STUFF THEIR ANCESTORS HAVE DONE…
5
4
3
2
1
And, cue the screaming.
-Joe, rant director
This has been done to death, and it certainly will not work out any better for you than the previous thousand times this has been asked.
The standard response to thye accusation of “reverse racism” is this: White people already own everything else, they still have certain advantages, why would you want to hang the Confederate flag outside when that’s a symbol of oppression, and what are you, some kind of racist? Or just an asshole?
I’m telling you, brace yourself, because it’s coming.
Well Airman Doors, I assume you stand proud to be in the USAF and you would fight for whatever they cause they deemed noble, correct? Well what about all those confederate troops (who most assuredly have ancestors today) who believed in the same thing. Would you want somebody ripping down the down the USAF flag of American Flag because of something the USAF did? Just because a person hangs up the Confederate flag doesn’t mean that they support the oppression caused by some of the people in the South during that time, it’s a symbol of heritage. So Airman Doors I am not an asshole or a racist, but maybe you should examine yourself, you might not be as smart as you think :wally
I’ll bite.
Can you think of anything controversial at all about an African flag? Has it been associated with anything that gets people up in arms? At all? The Confederate flags represents a lot of things to a lot of different people. To some people, it’s a symbol of oppression and racism. As far as I know, an African flag holds no such representation.
I think you’re being a tad near-sighted on this. You’re a college student - try applying a tad bit of rational thinking to this topic. You may still come up with the same conclusion, but at least you’ll have (at the least) half-formed opinions rather than the absolute ignorance you’re currently displaying.
You amuse me. The reason why I told you all that was because I have raised the same argument here before, and I’m telling you that you’re gonna get spanked.
Keep your hands where we can see them, and slowly back away from the thread.
Why do people think the symbolism behind the Confederate flag and an “African flag”* are the same? Even if one wants to ignore the racist history behind the Confederate flag, it is still used by the KKK and other white supremacy groups as a powerful symbol. What “African flag” is used to exert the superiority of black people?
Are Jews racist for waving the Star of David even though it’s taboo to wave a swatiska?
There is a NSBE (national society for black engineers) for the same reason why there is a SWE (society of women engineers) and SHPE (society of hispanic professional engineers). Minority groups sometimes have special interests that are ignored by the mainstream. Do you really think the National Society of Every and All Engineers would spend a lot of energy with outreach in inner city neighborhoods, for instance?
If you go to a National Society of Every and All Engineers meeting, do you feel like a minority? If you’re black (or female or Hispanic), chances are you do. That’s why these groups have formed their own societies. As long as they don’t discriminate in membership, it’s not something to get offended over.
*What is an African flag?
(Bolding mine)
Oh yes, the Confederate South was a model of liberty, just a few pockets of oppression here and there that the rest of the south abhorred and would have eliminated if the Northern Aggressors didn’t interfere.
Now back to your OP.
You are saying that at your school there are basically two computer labs. One is for everybody and one is for minorites only. Is that the case? Do you ever face the situation where you can’t use the computer lab becasue it’s full, (with people from all races) but the minority only lab has empty slots but you can’t use them? Does that ever happen?
Then you might have a complaint. Bringing up the flag issue was a bad idea.
First, let’s dispose of the term “reverse racism,”–there’s no reverse racism, there’s no forward racism, there’s just racism. Racism has never been exclusively white, but if we all can just admit that we’re all racist a little bit, even though we all know that it’s wrong, maybe it might help us get along.
Second, a moment’s thought will help the OP understand what the Confederate flag was used to represent and the sort of people who wave it, and then he might understand why its display is so offensive.
After that, he might want to contemplate the difference between superiority and affinity. The KKK is a group for white people and the NAACP is for black people, but to say that their ideologies and aims are similar would be laughable. He might also want to consider how minority groups work for mutual support in an antagonistic society.
GIS is your friend.
(bolding mine…)
And just what “sort” of people wave it?
Rightfully so, IMO.
I think most people who have been on this board for any length of time would agree that I am not a regular pile-on-in-the-Pit type. But this is one particular topic where I don’t cut much slack.
What the fuck about them?
I acknowledge that many non-slave-holding, very brave men fought for the Confederacy and did so with honour and distinction.
But if you can’t acknowledge that the confederate flag is irredeemably tainted by its association with slavery and inherently offensive to a large group of people, you are either:
a) a racist
b) an asshole
c) stupid
d) clueless
To very helpfully get it over with and godwinize this discussion, it is no different in kind, only in degree, from the argument that the swastika should be perfectly okay to fly because it has been associated with other cultures for millenia and therefore shouldn’t be saddled with the taint of Nazism. Maybe that is so, but it’s not reality and we have to live in the real world.
So no, you can’t hang a confederate flag to celebrate your heritage and not expect to get called on it in many areas. Get over it.
- Tamerlane
Time to get thee to a music shop and buy a copy of the soundrack of the Tony Award Winning 
musical Avenue Q and listen to…
“Everyone’s a little bit racist”
…
“Everyone’s a little bit racist sometimes…
Doesn’t mean we go around committing hate criiiiiiiimes…
Look around and you will find
No one’s really colourblind
Maybe it’s a fact we all should faaaaaaace
Everyone makes judgements… based on race…”
Enjoy.
The sort of people who admire the Confederacy and its goals.
These folks, for example.
or these gentlemen.
There’s lots to celebrate about Southern heritage; I should know, I’m from the South and my folks settled the Southern colonies (North Carolina and Virginia). There’s sweetened iced tea, cornbread, pork BBQ, fried catfish and hushpuppies, gospel music, country music, NASCAR, Flannery O’ Connor, Carson McCullers, Tennessee Williams, Truman Capote, Mardi Gras, andouille sausage, gumbo, pro wrestling back when it was just on UHF stations. . .
But the Confederate flag isn’t about any of that. It is about white suprememacy and a longing for the days when blacks knew their place. I’m a Southerner the descendant of slaveowners, and there is nothing to be proud of in that.
If you want to admire the military prowess of the South, please do; the Confederacy had great generals and soldiers who fought bravely. But when you wave the Stars and Bars, you are not advertising your admiration for the skill and heroism of Confederate soldiers, you are telling people you support the cause onwhich the Confederacy was founded.
When you’ve been told over and over that the Confederate flag is deliberate provocation, yet you persist in displaying it, when it has been adopted by every racist organization in the US, when it has become shorthand for racism, ytou can’t complain that the association of the flag with bigotry is unfair.
Check out the first paragraph of post #10.
A flag’s a powerful symbol with a boatload of shared understanding behind it. So, yes, anyone hanging up a Confederate Battle Flag will have to accept that they will be perceived as buying into the whole CSA gestalt. This means not just State’s Rights and pride of heritage but also the right to hold slaves that was a big part of the CSA cause.
Folks need to be careful about the parts of their “heritage” they espouse. As **gobear ** has pointed out, there are things in many folks’ heritage that needs to be repudiated. Hanging up a Confederate Battle Flag, with all the commonly-understood baggage it now carries, doesn’t go very far in the repudiation category.
Has anyone at your school tried to start a group for European Americans with good intentions, instead of doing it to point out some what they believe is racist behavior by others? I’m 99% sure that such a group at my school would be allowed to meet as long as they had clear objectives that couldn’t be addressed by all inclusive groups.
At my school we have special interest clubs aimed at promoting some of the following cultures: African American, African, Asian (seperate clubs for Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Taiwanese) Indian, Native American, Hispanic, Jewish, Italian and Russian* This list seems pretty inclusive to me.
Do the majority of white Americans have any causes that are not also largely important to all other Americans? Are there any problems that this group could work toward solving, or is this thread just another case of “they have one, so I want one too”?
*Bolded are European Groups, so clearly not all schools are like yours.
Saluki_fan, the core debate here is an old one: Do we still need affirmative action? (and airman is right; it has been done to death with a lot of screaming and hand wringing)
The basic argument for affirmative action is not to punish whites becasue of sins in the past. It’s an aknowledgement that whites traditionally have more opportunities to suceed and is an effort to help minorities catch up. Don’t think of it as reparations for the past - think of it as an effort to get minorities economically better established so the majority doesn’t have to support them. It’s meant to be phased out over time.
The argument against affirmative action is that providing preferential treatment to one group over another is, in itself, racist. If we are truly equal, then no group deserves the scales tipped their way. Therefore, affirmative action should be abolished immediately.
As for me, I’m between the two arguments. Minorities are much better off than they were fifty years ago, so perhaps we should accelerate the phasing out of affirmative action. Inequality, no matter which way it leans, is never good. For example, minority preference in city building contracts have become an old boy network in which a minority mayor can award contracts to his same raced friends based on connections rather than the best bid submitted. These types of programs should be dropped. However, only the most naive think that minorities have truly achieved equal opportunity, so some programs remain necessary. Minority scholarships are a good example, and the best way I can think of to reduce the minority underclass.
So, in your case the question becomes: Does a minority computer lab infringe on my right to an education? It really depends on how those computer labs are run.
IIRC, there WAS a “european american” group founded by a girl at a highschool, and we had a thread on it. I can’t find it for the life of me though…
Also, there are minority COMPUTER LABS? Where? School sponsored (I’m assuming) or not? What’s the school’s official justification?