You mean pr0n?
Seconded. For me, the hottest porn is and always will be films where I can believe the woman is genuinely horny and enjoying herself.
But abusive porn, while it does nothing for me personally, I think I can understand why it exists, something like a combination of:
- Shocking people is just another way to try to avoid it being boring. While no-one could ever get tired of seeing boobies, we do get tired of seeing the same actions, setups.
- Often it’s difficult to suspend belief that the woman isn’t just acting. With abusive porn, well…she’s probably not enjoying herself (which is where I part company with this kind of porn), but it is up-close and personal, and “real”; she’s really getting slapped, it’s really leaving red marks, and so on.
- The guys who work in porn ISTM over time start to see the actresses as something like props. So porn producers start out making good videos then over time decline as they can’t stop themselves face-fucking the girls and angrily bossing them around etc, and making lousy videos IMO.
- OK, some percent of men have sadistic fantasies. But not as many as you’d think from how many abusive videos are out there, is what I’m saying.
I hear this opinion a lot, but the producers that try to market more couple-friendly, sensual porn don’t seem to have much success. Candida Royalle has her line of videos, but I had never seen evidence that it was a commercial success.
I agree with the OP, but I wonder if the story told in Boogie Nights (video camera and tape technology made it easier to produce movies cheaply and quickly) isn’t being repeated with the internet (making them much, much easier to distribute). This makes it easier for the more exploitive crowd to make a quick buck. This crowd seems to overwhelm the people that take a bit of pride in the art of erotica.
I fear this trend will eventually have a backlash, because it provides a preponderance of evidence to the folks that have been saying since the beginning that porn is demeaning to women. Frankly, with a lot of the free stuff that is flooding the internet, I have a hard time disagreeing with them. It’s sad to me, because back in to '80s, it seem obvious to me that the women were the stars and the men were just props and I thought that was a good thing.
I will freely admit that my opinion on this subject is colored by my age. Now get off my lawn, dammit.
However, one thing about this trend that puzzles me is, where is the money coming from? Most of the exploitive porn that I see, and skip over, on the internet is available for free. How is anyone making money from it? I realize the idea is to get people to provide a credit card for a monthly subscription to someone’s website, but does anyone actually do that?
Like the way Duck Dynasty and Storage Wars portend the coming apocalypse.
I’ve been mostly lurking since my last AMA type thread a couple years ago but this one drew me out.
Having been in “the biz” for 20+ years I have seen it all, some of which I would just as soon never have seen…
Anyway I actually agree with the OP porn has become largely a race to the bottom, for the most part any hint at eroticism has been replaced by misogyny and aggression.
im not a fan of the violence that has permeated the industry these days and I largely blame it on a giant influx of male performers who cant get erections without using ED Meds or worse yet Caverject, many come for the gay side of the industry to supplement their income and don’t like women anyway. There is also no shortage of Directors who seem to hate women.
I have said for many years that this biz attracts two types of guys to come into it, Guys that love women and guys that hate women, sadly we currently have too many of the later.
“Couple friendly” has nothing to do with it. If I am watching porn I am watching it to wank, by myself, and I generally want to get right to the action, I am not interested (generally speaking) in making it look romantic, or any sort of long buildup, and I sometimes enjoy seeing things that most (perhaps all) people would find uncomfortable or painful in real life, say, for instance, a woman using a very large dildo. None of this, however, has anything to do with the meanness that is being talked about in this thread. I can be turned on by a woman who seems to voluntarily use a very large dildo, and to enjoy it. On the other hand, I am going to be turned off by seeing a woman compelled against her will to take such a dildo, and who seems to hate the experience (or to hate it until she eventually climaxes). It is the latter sort of thing that I, and I think most of the rest of the people in this thread, are talking about. (Except that most of the mean stuff probably does not so much involve dildoes, and usually not even anything seriously painful, but just the men treating the women in abusive, contemptuous ways.)
Mean and extreme are not the same things at all. Mean and S&M are not the same. I like some quite extreme stuff, and I can understand why some people might like S&M, though it isn’t really for me, but I am actively turned off by mean, I find it hard to believe that more than a small niche “fetish” audience would prefer it, and I do not understand why it has become so mainstream.
That’s not quite the same thing though.
As a guy, I do prefer to see things cut-to-the-chase somewhat. And there’s always going to be a degree of fantasy in watching porn. Watching someone do the same stuff I do in private is good…watching a guy sleep with 2 uber-hot girls at the same time is better. 
So yeah I should have put some caveats around my earlier point. The most important factor for me is that I can at least suspend disbelief that the women are genuinely horny. But it’s not the only factor.
I hope I’m wrong, but I fear it may be because there’s a lot of hostility toward women among a sizable portion of the porn-watching public. Maybe they’re hostile because in real life they’ve been rejected, or ignored, or bullied, or taken advantage of, by women; or maybe they’re just misogynistic for no good reason. So they enjoy watching porn in which women are bullied or taken advantage of, because it makes them feel powerful or avenged somehow.
Glad you’re still around Mike. That was a great thread. Has it really been a couple of years?
Anyway, mature porn seems to not have any – or at least as much – violence.
Being 51, I have little interest in watching young 20ish girls in porn. I can’t help but think they’re being exploited or pimped out against their will; I don’t have the same perception when it’s a 40ish or 50ish woman.
BDSM porn doesn’t have to be mean, and people who are interested in porn that would be classed as BDSM can’t therefore be assumed to be looking for meanness.
Possibly a little of both? My understanding of the history of porn is academic, but it seems to me that, sort of like what JRDelirious said, pornography used to be artier than it is now (not that pornographers really aspired to, like, Jodorowsky) and production values were higher, and that applied to the acting too. On the other hand, as one becomes more sexually experienced oneself, I imagine ones expectations change.
I didn’t read the original post as a complaint about the existence of certain types but the non-existence. “Don’t watch what you don’t like” doesn’t really address the issue.
But what about porn for people who don’t want mechanical, impersonal rutting or a romantic love story?
That’s exactly what I’m talking about. It seems there would be a market for something between the Showtime-like soft porn and the impersonal rutting. The few Candida Royalle videos I’ve seen seemed to be lacking something, and I could never quite put my finger on it. My wife thought so, too.
However, whenever the subject comes up on this board or in real life, I’ve heard people express that opinion. I suspect part of the problem is that folks that want such porn are not high-volume consumers. Whereas, the horny, single 18-year olds, are.
To njtt, my couple-friendly comment was not a criticism of the cut-to-the chase or the extreme genres. I get the point of those and, while they’re not what I would chose, I have no objection to them. I do, however agree with the OP and I’m am a little concerned about the (at least per my perception) the growing interest in the jackhammer pounding of 18-year old girls with tears in their eyes. It worries me if those videos are the wanking material of choice for very many youngsters.
I don’t think it is “of choice,” I think – at least, this was Typo’s complaint, as I understood it – that’s what there is, that and the mushy shit. The fact that high-volume customers don’t seem to want the mushy shit doesn’t mean they want meanness, only that of the two, meanness isn’t as hard on the fast-forward button.
I don’t know if there’s a market for enthusiastic people fuckin’, but if there is, I don’t get the sense that anyone is, as it were, tapping it.
Not unrelated: a Twitter convo inspired me to search Google for “ethical porn,” and what came up was a lot of legit gonzo porn, a lot of non-traditionally attractive people, a lot of resistance to gender and other norms. I have trouble believing there’s essentially no one out there who is interested in porn featuring pretty women and good(-enough)-looking men … who aren’t being extradiegetically exploited more than the Hollywood baseline.
It’s not spitting, per se, but I’ve found that the best lubricant is saliva. And it’s fun to apply, too. And cheap, that’s another plus.
oh ya Im still around and let me tell ya da yutes now days arent like they used to be there are no shortage that do porn without a shred of regret and many consider it a badge of honor so dont feel bad for the twenty somethings, I know a few that have retuired from the biz before 30 and will never have to work another day in their lives, admitted they are rare but they are out there. the ones that save and invest rather than purchase designer handbags generally do pretty well.
maybe its time for an ama thread in the main forum…ya its been that long…
The Playboy channel has an amateur video show that’s not too bad. They also have a show, Adult Film School, that shows Holly Randall directing an amateur couple in their own video. The show starts by showing the home, self-shot video sent in by the couple. Then Ms. Randall’s team does their magic with lighting, camera angles, hair, and makeup to make a new video. It was educational for me to see what a huge difference some professional help can make.
That kind of hits on MikeSouth’s point. There doesn’t seem to be a shortage of people in there 20s willing to appear on screen without making a career of it. It certainly doesn’t carry the stigma it once did.
Then they watch the oeuvre of James Deen. I don’t know if MikeSouth would agree with me (or if he has personal experience otherwise), but James has always struck me as a gentleman who enjoys his work. If ever there was a porn star I’d love to meet, he’d be it… I’ll even forgive him for the Farrah tape.
To the OP; I agree with you. I don’t care as much about what they’re saying, but some of the acts- particularly the spitting, ye GODS the SPITTING- are a huge turnoff. It’s one thing to discreetly lick your own fingers to lube things up, and totally another to lean back, bring chunks up from the depths of your lungs, and spew it onto your partner. Yuck.
Wow Abby Winters was here? Hers is one of my favorite sites (as I remember from the early '00s - I haven’t been there much lately). I liked it for being female-centric and erotic, and featuring lots of models with small natural breasts instead of grotesque silicone bulbs.
The problem with that is that generally porn stars are HORRIBLE at faking enjoyment to the point that they seem sarcastic about it. I would love to see porn with a woman who was truly enjoying herself, but a woman badly pretending to be enjoying herself is for the most part a pretty big turn off.
Thinking about the OP’s question: back in the 70’s, a common these of porn was a young woman’s self-liberation from the traditional sexual repression (in mainstream movies this was also a common theme, but instead of guys like Ron Jeremy her partners were more “male model in the executive suite,” and no graphic sex.) Even “Behind the Green Door” ostensibly about abduction and rape, fit into this category (she clearly wanted it, and the abduction and rape aspect was just her jobbing-out the liberation to her abductors. Female viewers agreed).
That fit into the “Squares vs. swingers” zeitgeist of the era. I can’t imagine how the 1% vs. the 99% has anything to do with our current state of theatrical couplings and grouplings.
Maybe the problem is I am just looking at the free porn. I may have to pay for good porn.
