Hi, nice to meet you. I’m 37 and I’ve never dyed my hair. But, I’m a natural redhead and we* don’t go gray, so I’ve got none at all to cover up. My mom’s in her late 50s and doesn’t dye her hair either for the same reason.
But yeah, being a chick is somewhat more expensive. The whole clothing thing ticks me off because even extremely basic things like a tee shirt by Hanes that’s made the same way as a man’s (not the semi-fitted ones I prefer, even, but the same cut) are more expensive, despite using less materials in S-M-L sizes. " We" applies only to those with hair that’s really red. Auburn and strawberry blonde are reddish* but do gray. Redheads eventually get white hair if we live long enough, but skip gray along the way.
What, exactly, is your profession? I worked in corporate America for 20+ years. During that time management was largely expected to wear closed toe shoes - so why do you NEED a pedicure, again? Nothing wrong if you enjoy them of course but they’re not required - unless management does toe inspections?
And if your underwear is wearing out that quickly buy better! Seriously, I buy underwear off the bargain shelf at Target that last longer - and honey, at work no one gives a damn about your underwear if you’re wearing management-appropriate clothing. Again, no one is inspecting what isn’t seen.
Prenatal vitamins? Unless you’re pregnant you don’t need them. If you’re worried about getting vitamins improve your diet.
Eyebrow waxing? Seriously? Yes, eyebrows need to be groomed/controlled but tweezers are more than adequate to the job, unless your boss somehow checks up on where you go for grooming and will penalize you for failing to spend sufficient dollars at specific salons or something.
I question that. Maybe in your area that’s the going cost (in which case I feel sorry for women in your area) but that’s about twice the prices last I checked in the Chicago area. Unless you’re a Fortune 500 CEO I think you’re overspending.
Where the hell do you work?
Granted, picking the wrong hair color for you can result in disaster (I sold three hair color removal kits just yesterday for that reason) but pay for some professional help in determining what works for you then learn to do it yourself. Payless shoes? Honey, unless you’re buying Manolos and Choos the stuff at Payless stands a good chance of being the same thing as at Needless Markup. If you are buying Manolos and Choos with proper care (and at those prices you do need to maintain them) they’ll last you years, you don’t need to keep buying pair after pair.
Best dress from Target? OK, you probably have a point there. Although a LOT of women in various management positions at a lot of companies have no problem with doing just that and still being seen as professional.
^ this.
Really? Because I’m looking back at my tenure at my last job in Big Corporate America and the woman Vice Presidents and Executive Directors I knew. I’d say half of them either never wore nail polish or only a clear top coat. Their nails were neat, well-trimmed, and groomed but nail polish is NOT required for a upper management in corporate America in my experience. The CEO did get professional manicures but, being a man, it didn’t involve polish and I doubt very much he got any sort of price break.
Geez, someone better tell those female managers, directors, and VP’s I used to work for that they are no longer being seen as “professional” despite the titles, responsibilities, perks, salaries, power, and benefits they enjoyed.
Remarkably enough, SOME companies actually value performance and competence over pretty.
^ Yes, compare like to like. As I said, the CEO of the last big corporation I worked for got professional manicures and wore thousand-dollar suits because he was the front face of the company and in that particular case he was, like a model, being paid in part for maintaining a certain level of appearances every single day. The people immediately below him in the hierarchy only needed to do that on special occasions. If they wanted to do that, fine, but they weren’t required, most of them didn’t bother, and it didn’t seem to have any effect on their careers.
Same - in fact, my skin improved immensely when I STOPPED buying all those expensive skin-care products on the advice of a dermatologist, there’s no need for a professional manicure if your toes don’t show (it IS easier than doing your own properly if you are showing toes frequently), never saw a need to wax my eyebrows, and even when I did wear pantyhose constantly I didn’t need to constantly replace my panties!
^ This!
Again - someone needs to tell all the VP’s, directors, and managers I used to work with.
Mind you, I have zero problem with anyone coloring their hair if that’s what they want. It’s quite telling, though, your phrase “half-gray and half-natural” - gray IS natural!. This notion that a woman can’t advance with grey in her hair is, however, completely bogus. The notion that it’s unacceptable even for minimum wage work is even more telling. The truth is that most of the time no, it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference for a competent woman and it’s not required. If your job requires a lot of face time in front of, say, a TV camera or in front of Congress (and I’ve known people meeting that description) then yes, in those cases it can be a factor but those folks usually are compensated sufficiently that the additional costs for those appearance maintenance items are not unduly burdensome. Most people, even most upper level executives, do not meet that description.
It’s like the women cashiers I know who spend hundreds of dollars on fancy artificial nails thinking it’s expected or required - 99% of customers don’t give a flip. It also eliminates entire categories of jobs where such things are forbidden - my sister the MD is no less a professional despite the requirement she NOT wear nail polish or artificial nails on the job.
Yes, from time to time a woman does have to spring for professional grooming - I’ve done it a few times, usually when I was part of a wedding party or something similarly formal. There’s definitely a pampering angle to a lot of it that’s kind of an ego-boost. It’s not required for most women outside of rare occassions.
Oh, yea, I forgot the comment about the undies. The only way I see you buying a pair every month is if that is the only pair you have and you have to handwash them every night.
I have relatives who insist on having few underwear and handwashing only. They go through them a lot faster than me. Same thing with the bras.
I can see having to buy Spanx if you have a high profile and you wear the kinds of outfits that reveal the lumps and bumps you’d rather no one see.
But you’ve got more serious problems than lumps and bumps if your Spanx aren’t holding up after a month.
It’s also not a given that a woman will ruin a pair of panties while on her period. If she’s wearing nothing by white frilly things, yeah, those things aren’t going to stay very white for very long. But that’s why they make cheap black panties. If you’re ruining black panties, something is terribly terribly wrong!
I work in IT, and I take metro daily with literally thousands of women headed to work- pretty much all dressed in identical pencil skirt/button up/statement necklace/Tory Butch commuter flats (or the full suit version).
Few women do all of these things, but coloring your hair and getting a wax are absolutely normal, ordinary things that many, many women do.
You work in IT? I think I speak for every IT person here when I say that as long as you’re not covered in Cheeto dust you’ve checked the “Professional” box. The expectations you have for workplace dress are way out of line with the average person and are especially insane once you consider the fact that you work in IT. You do these things because you want to, not because some mythical “they” says you’re supposed to.
Wow. I rode mass transit in the Chicago area for 24 years and I’ve never seen such an array of female clones. I worked in Corporate America for over 20 years and never saw such a requirement and the women working in IT? Yeah, remember to wear pants/skirt, don’t be covered in yesterday’s lunch, that’s about it.
Yes, hair coloring, waxing, brow grooming, nail polish, etc. are, indeed, normal ordinary things millions of women do. Ideally, they do all that by choice. What we are not believing is that this is somehow REQUIRED. It’s not. Well, maybe where you live, but if so it’s a highly exceptional place.
I have to agree that the monthly list is not accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by even sven
Two new work clothing items on sale at Banana Republic $175
Haircut and highlights $150
Replace one makeup item $25
Two manicures and one pedicure $75
Replace one skin care item $25
Replace one hair care item $12
One pair of shoes/bag/sunglasses/etc. $75
New bra and pair of undies (our undies get ruined quickly) $50
Razors $10
Prenatal vitamins $20
Period supplies $15
Pantyhose (they rip after a few wearing a) $15
Two eyebrow waxes $22
I worked in architecture and here’s my take:
Haircuts are usually every 5-6 weeks, no? Maybe if you have short hair? Most professional women I know (and me) do not go monthly because we just don’t have the time. Color and cut and highlights? That’s 2-3 hours minimum. Can’t do it during the week because of work and weekends are filled with kid activities (typically).
Make up and hair products… How much are you using?? Product lasts forever. I can’t possibly imagine going through a tube/can a month. If you are the kind to get $150 monthly haircuts, however, I seriously doubt you are using $12 products. At this point, it’s all about brand. I’ve used $25 hairspray and it works no better or worse than $5.00 hairspray.
Same goes for make up. I end up throwing out more than I use up. Granted, I have a ton of make up, but that’s choice. I can guarantee nobody, aside from myself, can tell any of my lipstick colors apart.
A pair of shoes/sunglasses/bag a month? No way. That’s purely optional. A few classic pumps are all that are really “needed”. This said, if you’re talking about high end professional women, 75 for shoes is cheap.
Period supplies. Obviously can’t speak for you, but that’s 2 boxes every month? Maybe I’m just lucky (really).
Manicures? Most that are into this seem to get acrylics (but the better ones) and only require fills or they get gel polish. This is why you don’t see chips. Then we’re back to the time thing. A mani-pedi can be 2 hours, minimum. I can’t imagine that twice a month.
Bras and panties monthly? No, but again this price is too low if you’re talking upscale.
Lastly, none of the women under 40ish wore hose at the office. Maybe that’s a Texas thing. Pantyhose was looked down as matronly.
I think peer pressure needs to be distinguished from workplace dress code or professional expectation. If everyone is wearing a de facto uniform, it would take a strong-willed person to resist joining in. But a de facto uniform is not the same as a mandated uniform. I think even sven was talking about the former, when everyone else is thinking of the latter
There are a number of female managers at my workplace (just a “number”, though). None of them dress like ragamuffins, that much is true. But they run the gamut of “professional put-togetherness”. They may be spending a lot of money on clothes and whatnot, but it’s not obvious for all of them.
The women who dress the nicest in my workplace tend to be more highly valued administrative assistants. I don’t mean they spend the most money–just that if there’s anyone likely to go above and beyond in their professional look, it’s an executive administrative assistant. But these women are the kind of people who wouldn’t be caught dead wearing jeans to the grocery store. They’re those ladies you see at church wearing those giant hats. I could see a go-getter administrative assistant thinking that they have to dress like that to get ahead. The AA on my floor once told me the reason she believes she isn’t on the executive floor is because she refuses to get her hair done or wear pumps. I don’t think those are the only reasons, but it is true that none of the AA’s on that floor dresses the way she does. So there is a standard that some women do feel pressured to conform to.
But a woman should also be able to tell when it’s silly “keeping up with the Jones’s” bullshit.
As someone who used to work as a high-level executive assistant there actually ARE some positions in that profession that do have appearance requirements. That CEO I was talking about who used to get professional manicures? His EA was required to maintain full formal office appearances. That’s professional suit dresses, pumps, make up, etc. On the other hand, that requirement was explicit in the job description so if you wanted that position you would go to the interview dressed in that manner and know in advance that you would be expected to maintain that. The rationale was that, just as the boss was the public face of the company and would appear representing the company in the media or before government agencies she would likewise often be accompanying him and should be equally formal in appearance. If you want a job like that yeah, you might want to start dressing the part even before you interview for that exact position. Those positions, though, are a minority of those open to AA’s these days.
She earned about $15k more than the next highest paid tier of AA’s in the company, so she could certainly afford the clothes, shoes, accessories, make-up, professional grooming, etc. I was the next tier down from her and we were paid quite well (I did used to fly airplanes as a hobby) and there were no such requirements. I got to that level without having to wear a lady suit, wore flats for all but the more formal occasions, and didn’t have to deal with all the rest of what even sven was describing. I was required to meet those standards on occasion, not daily.
AA’s sometimes go “over the top” because, frequently being the initial contact for outsiders, there’s that aspect of being the “face” of the company. Receptionists likewise might have more stringent appearance requirements for similar reasons. In those cases part of what you’re being paid for it to look a certain way. If you’re in the back office and seldom see outsiders it’s just not as important.
In other jobs you have a standard issue uniform - again, it usually because you have frequent contact with the public and the company wants a certain “face”. Where I work there is much whining about the uniforms and dress code. I agree, there’s nothing at all sexy about it. However, the purpose is to allow the public to easily distinguish employees from other customers so if they need assistance they can figure out who to ask for help. Management wears pretty much the same thing except their shirts are a different color, which allows the peons to locate a manager easily when they need one. Only when you get to the store director and that level of management do you start seeing “street clothes” again but even there the men are required to wear ties and the women still have dress requirements as well.
I definitely agree that certain professions require a certain style of dress. If you’re some hotshot on Wall Street, you better not come in some Suit Shack polyester number lest you be laughed out of Manhattan. I also agree that women’s beauty regimens, especially in highly visible, high-powered professions, can get expensive. What I’m grappling with is the apparent incredible amount of maintenance some women are both required and expected to go through. I don’t get my eyebrows waxed because they don’t need waxing. Even if I were the CEO of Earth, I wouldn’t get my eyebrows waxed because they’re not very full and they already arch. I don’t spend a fortune on skin care products because my skin is fine. Yes, I still wear makeup when attempting to look professional because sadly wearing no make up at all doesn’t look as polished as natural looking, well-applied makeup. My underwear isn’t crumbling every four weeks, I do own some expensive clothing,
I also don’t get this jazz about women needing to color their hair. Maybe it’s the case because I’m black, but dark hair really is my best bet. I’m assuming (? - what do I know?) it’s the same for white women too, though. There are no high-powered brunettes? Because I didn’t know blonde hair was a requirement to keeping a professional appearance. I’m also surprised that this elaborate amount of upkeep is required in IT. Aren’t those the guys who wear mandals to work everyday?
It’s not so much a professional appearance issue insomuch as it is simply the majority of white people in the US and Europe have brown hair and a bunch of those women happen to not like their brown hair. It’s considered boring and mousy (especially compared to hearing people talk about how sexy redheads and blondes are simply for having that hair color). Sometimes it’s not a full dye job but just highlights that women get because they think their hair looks flat and uninspired, but either way, a lot of western white women dye their hair. Then you get to middle age and the grey hairs come in and, well, there’s a lot of women who want to look young for a while longer, too (and then they feel like they can’t stop because revealing the grey hairs that multiplied in the meantime would shock people).
If she wants to go blonde because she thinks it looks better, that’s fine, but counting it among “expectations for a professional woman” is silly. Professionally done and maintained hair, sure. Not being brunette? No.
I’m 50ish myself and I don’t color my hair. I can’t say I’ve never dyed it because when I was in high school I’d do wild unnatural colors from time to time, but not since I was 18 or so. I don’t have any grey yet. No, really, I don’t. I take after my father that way, who didn’t start to go grey until into his late 60’s. He’s 85 now and still has almost entirely black hair.
Some of us just don’t need it until well into middle age. Just lucky genes, really.
Of course, women can dye for reasons other than covering grey.
I don’t think it’s so much about brunnette vs. blonde as certain cultural expectations. You mentioned the pressure black women feel to get their hair straightened, well, middle-aged white women are expected/assumed to color their hair. We’re getting away from that, just as many black women are looking for hairstyles that don’t require soaking their hair in chemicals to achieve a straightness wholly unnatural to their locks.
That aside, some women just like to change their look. It’s like black women who bleach their hair and color it blonde or red or some other color that’s a hair color but not the one they were born with. Some white women like to change their hair color because, well, fashion/fun/whatever and it’s not at all about fooling anyone or hiding grey.
That said - blonde hair is definitely associated with youth when it comes to white people. A lot of white folks’ hair darkens with age (until it turns grey, of course) so a lot of naturally blonde white kids are going to grow up to have brown hair of some sort in their 20’s and later. Bottle-blondes might be at some level an attempt to retain some aura of youth. Oh, and of course American culture has long valued blonde hair over brunette so yeah, some of that, too. Like a lot of cultural things there’s more than one factor at work.
Apparently 75% of adult American women dye their hair. It’s not just people covering gray or going blonde. A lot of those brunettes dye too, either to get highlights or a more pleasing shade. And a quick Google search of “gray hair in the workplace” shows that at the least, it’s something people put some thought in to.
So the question isn’t if hair needs to be dyed to be professional. It is being dyed. To be professional, it needs to be dyed well and maintained.
The truth. At Bell Labs over 30 years ago, before anyone wore jeans or shorts to work (at least in NJ) female MTS with Masters and PhDs dressed worse than the secretaries. In Silicon Valley today there is no way of telling them apart through dress. Men either, by the way.
My old CEO never wore suits except when testifying before Congress or meeting heads of large countries. Take a look at tech CEOs who come on The Daily Show or Colbert. Very few wear suits.
