Let's gripe about social inequality between the sexes

The BBQ Pit
1

Since this topic seems to be a sub-theme to a lot of other threads, let’s just put a piece of cheesecloth over all of them and strain them out for collection into one container. Since I’m a guy, I’ll complain about the crap guys take from *society, but I hope women will post-in and fight my ignorance about the abuse they endure (but if it’s self-inflicted abuse, be prepared to be called on it)

*note that I’m pitting society. Below I slam no individual women, and give credit to righteous women whenever possible. Women or men are not the enemy - the monster is the enemy. Please define the monster:

The Media:
We’ve had threads about commercials with the “doofus husband,” or which even show men receiving violence from women portrayed as funny, while the reverse would be unthinkable.

(bear in mind that most violent child abuse is commited by mothers, and approx. half the victims are boys. How about a bleach commerical with a hip, media-savvy reference to “A Child Called ‘It’”?

In this thread dopers are discussing films with sympathetic male adulterers. Anaamika is as fair-minded, as a critical-thinking doper, to point out the disparity between how women cheaters are portrayed as justified, but males never.

(I’m not including the “Missing White Woman” Syndrome because it discriminates against non-white or pretty women as well as men. But whenever I see it, I can’t help but think that my response is supposed to be “Aw why’d you kill her? I wanted to fuck her!”)

Dating and relationships:
We’ve had no end of threads on this topic, which include double standards that were traditional in the pre-internet conventions for meeting and courtship, and some new ones that have developed for on-line dating.

Please feel free to share yours. Lately, mine is how the middle-age women have perfectly valid reasons to want us guys just for sex but not relationships (teenage kids, careers, etc.) while twenty years ago we guys were such pigs for wanting this same advantage. Men fear committment, while women need to be free.

Sexuality:
A year or so ago we had a male doper post in asking recommendations on synthetic vaginas. A fair-minded female doper who’s name I forget posted back that she was initially skeeved-out by his immodesty, but then realized that there’d been no shortage of threads by women here on the best devices to facillitate the female orgasm.

Credit to her fair-mindedness aside, one does get the message that when a woman masturbates she’s empowering herself, reclaiming her sexuality from the patriarchy, while a man who masturbates is a loser who can’t get laid.
Workplace:
A lot of females aren’t happy about taking up the slack for the absent mommies, so I won’t include that one. But I’m tired of having to drop what I’m doing and lift things too heavy for a female to lift or crawl under her desk and connect wires becasue her butt would show if she had to. In fairness I’ve usually been sent on these fool’s errands by a male manager who just wants the godamned thing done and is too intimidated to impose equal standards.

That one may be anecdotal, and I’m sure plenty of women lift ten-ream boxes of bond paper all day long. But plenty of other women don’t because they’ve found a way around it and they may either feel like they’ve pulled a fast one on us dumb guys, or unthinkingly accept this as their due.

Talking about your menstrual period at work. I really don’t care - I’m familiar with basic biological principles and I’m not threatened by them as abstract discussion topics. But then - isn’t menses a reproductive fluid? I bet if I started talking about my reproductive fluid, - not puriently, just academically, mind you - I’d be out of a job faster than a horny cub scout’s ejaculate.

Family Court and the overall Legal System
Plenty of inequalites here. But I may already be killing my own thread in the first post by its length, so I’ll just list this as a suggestion.

Overall, the issue boils down to how people want life on their terms, which is natural. But when they twist society’s conventions of justice and redressing past injustices for that selfish end, I reach for the Pit.

2

Good topic! And here’s mine…

The differences between female workwear and male workwear. Men’s workwear comes in one flavor, a button up shirt that may or may not have to be matched with a tie. I’ve got no problem with button up shirts (although I hate ties), but I think it’s unfair that I don’t get a choice in what I want to wear because women’s workwear seems to consist of everything from sweaters to button up shirts to fucking t-shirts (which have apparently been eupemismed to be “knit shirts”).

Why can’t I wear a t-shirt to work and still be considered “professional?”

3

Because your breasts don’t look quite as good in a t-shirt.

4

Agreed with the clothing thing.

A woman coming out of a relationship is expected to emote and talk about it. A man is expected to suck it up and deal.

On the other hand, there’s the whole Real Man/slut thing.

5

Yeeeah… perhaps concentrating on one topic would be easier. This is a bit across the board. But I will say that this

is a bit of a joke. Men being too dumb to change the toilet paper is seen as acceptable because that’s still women’s work. And it’s still implied that men are off doing real work that really counts. It’s not threatening. The same way we can say ‘white guys dance like this!’ because who the hell cares how you dance when you’re getting into an Ivy league school just like your Daddy? It’s still enough of a switcheroo (‘Wait, the woman’s running things?’) to be gimmicky.

I agree that violence against men isn’t particularly funny (and generally can’t stand when prison rape is used as a comic device), but the idea that the reverse – of either of these, really – would be ‘unthinkable’ means you couldn’t have been a TV exec or copy writer even 20 years ago. Or have never seen Family Guy.

6

One person’s freedom is another’s enslavement. I definitely feel for guys stuck in suits and ties in the summer time, but I also wish I could just get a few nice pieces from Prada, some sensible shoes and be done with it. Instead many women spend thousands a season on fashionable (and occasionally painful) clothes, shoes, purses and accessories, make-up and hair (styling and dye). The last woman I know who decided to wear a pantsuit to work every day got labeled a lesbian after about a week.

7

Heh. In this morning’s paper, the following DV case: Relationship’s over but he comes round to fix her car. Argument ensues. She takes a pop at him. He hits her back. He gets two months in the pokey and a stern dressing-down from the judge. She… not so much.

8

51.8% of the Harvard Class of 2010 is female. This in line with national trends of more educational opportunities for women (and implies fewer for men).

9.8% Latino, 1.4% Native American, 10.5% African American and 17.7% Asian.

9

OOOOH Womens footwear in the Office!!! Open toe shoes, sandles, spiked heels, runners, fricken slippers, even bare foot!!!

If a guy had sandles in the office he’d be sent out!!

And you know what ladies? Not all of you have feet that are attractive. (Actually I find no feet attractive) Why must I be subjected to you showing them off?!?!

phew that feels better.

Another problem: If a man shows any sympathy to a child, who is not his own he’s immediatly looked apon as some sort of preditor.

Example: Afew years back I was watching my kids playing (aged 5 and 6) with a friend of theirs. The other kid falls and scrapes his knee. I go to help, as the kid’s parents are elsewhere, and suddenly the kid goes to me for a hug… now I feel like all eyes are on me as some sort of a creepy pervert because I do what is natural in that situation and try to comfort a crying child.

Plus being the only guy in the park with his kids gets stares as if I’m scoping the park instead of doing what every other parent is doing there, you know, watching my kids.

Now I’m feeling angry!

10

Although I personally know of no married couple where the wife’s income, and therefore her respect as a professional, is considered just “pin money”, I’ll admit you have a point here IRT common perception: which is my point - this is the monster.

Of course you know that female to male ratio in undergraduate education is 1.3+ to 1. I won’t even bother to look up the ratio of males to Ivy-league males. We indeed are men, but very, very few of us are “The Man.”

Thank you for the the fairness of bringing rape-humor into this. But I’ll need examples of funny on-woman violence 20 years ago - I only remember them as being shown as stupid & vain. We’ll have to debate how mainstream “Family Guy” is compared to a window blind commercial where the husband sets himself on fire.

11

I’m stuck in a conundrum.

On a first date at dinner, I always offer to pay my half, and it’s a sincere offer. No man has ever taken me up on it. If it’s movies or a museum, I can always make sure I get first in line and buy my own ticket, but at a restaurant, I’d pretty much have to tackle the server, which is frowned upon. It’s such a strong social convention, that if I insist on paying my part, I’ve sent the message that I do not trust the man, do not like him, and am unwilling to go into his debt, no matter how slight.

At work, I’ve had male coworkers insist that they be the ones to clambor under my desk and start hooking up cables, something I’m completely capable of and willing to do. I wouldn’t ask them to do it for me unless there were a valid reason I couldn’t (like my leg was in a cast).

I think it’s a bit like the old courtesy of men holding doors for women. When Women Libbers took offense because they felt it implied they were weak and incapable, they became the villain for being mean to men who were just trying to be courteous and thoughtful.

So, I do my best never to take it for granted but to treat it as a thoughtful gift, and I also do my best to return the favor either with a consideration of my own or by giving them the opportunity to stare down my cleavage.

12

But no one’s forcing you (with written rules) to spend thousands of dollars on a variety of clothes. I just want to be able to wear a solid colored t-shirt just like my boss. But no, I have to look “professional.”

13

How old are you? I find splitting date costs is just not that big a deal to most people under 30 and a huge deal to everyone over.

14

Yeah I really hate that. But in fairness, a lot of ads suggest or imply that a woman is a bad wife/mother if she doesn’t buy a particular product. At least men are spared this sort of insult which is in my opinion a lot more offensive.

I guess men and women both should refuse to buy products that are advertised in a demeaning or sexist way. Except for beer, of course!

Also agree, but again, women also receive some special treatment - for example movies where violence against women is portrayed as sexy or where women are humiliated by having wardrobe malfunctions of various types.

I saw an advertisement for a recent comedy movie like that. There was a scene in the trailer where the leading woman accidentaly throws a surgical knife at the leading man. (Yes, it was supposed to be funny.) And there was also a scene where the leading woman has her skirt torn by a car door and is left standing their in her panties.

15

Whoa, I was mentioned in the OP. Heh, that’s a common pet peeve of mine in literature, that it’s OK for women to fuck around on a marriage.

Here’s mine - women don’t get pockets in their clothes, cause apparently it makes us look fat. Screw you, clothes makers! I want pockets!

Family court, and worse yet, men’s rights regarding pregnancies. No, I will most definitely not get in a debate on this and don’t even try. I’ll just ignore you.

Mechanics. I had a mechanic for a good long time that didn’t judge me because I was female. But there are so many out there that hear “female” and make up stuff.

More later, I’m going to eat lunch now.

16

Body hair on women.

I don’t shave anything on my body, though I occasionally pluck a stray chin hair or dark “mustache” hair. I haven’t paid much attention to my eyebrows for a good decade, as the unibrow threat seems to have retreated through the years.

My armpits are rarely on display at my job, but I have been known to wear T-shirts with the sleeves cut off, especially when commuting by bicycle in muggy Atlanta. I do wear outdoorsy shorts and 3/4 length pants to work all the time. Even though my corporate dress code is non-existant (I believe someone came to work here naked once, prior to my employment, and still works here today) I am always surprised at how many people visibly notice that I have hairy legs, regardless of whether or not their noticing affects our working relationship (extremely rare).

17

Sorry, I meant this for the black/white comparison. (if I wanted to bring academia into the ‘battle of the sexes,’ I’d mention Feminist Studies).

Ack! (from Cathy). Too many quoted replies. This really is all over the place. And now I’m making it worse. Re: advertising, I do think this idea that guys come off looking ‘worse’ than women is ignoring, well, stuff like this – both its ubiquitousness and normalization and the real, negative effects it can have (not to start a debate on this particular Dove ad. Not here.)

Re: clothing. true, I don’t have to spend money on clothes, but there is something to be said about being able to blend into the background. i think women are judged on their clothes much more than men (especially, say, politicians). Whether too dowdy, too sexy, too butch…

18

Is that for his benefit or yours?

19

You can find out more about phouka in my new book: “phouka: the Greatest Woman in the History of the World”.

(apologies to Norm MacDonald)

20

Why aren’t there more like you out there? :slight_smile:

Re: the OP, I’ve got one. Why is it that guys who look (leer, stare, drool, whatever) at women are nasty perverts, and liable to get slapped with a harassment charge (especially at work), but women can gather in large groups and loudly discuss the new mailboy’s ass without reprisal?

My desk is in the middle of a large group of women (open-plan, yuck), and I hear this daily. I don’t personally care, mind you, but it’s irritating that I know that I can’t so much as comment to my one male coworker how hot the new trainer is (and she’s smokin’!) or I’ll be out of a job. While the girls around here take turns discussing every. Goddamn. Male that passes by.

Grr.