Is it OK for men to cry in public?

The BBQ Pit
201

Everybody agrees that it is healthy for men to cry given [fill in the blank] circumstances. That is not the question.

The people who ridicule the “knuckle-draggers” (thereby diminishing the credibilty of their enlightened views, btw) seem to be saying that is is not only normal and fine for a man to cry, but that the proper model of masculinity involves times when the man is incapable of stopping the tears. Or more to the point, that they shouldn’t try. This is the argument I find so difficult to understand.

I say there are many times when a man does cry, many times when he probably should, and many times when he should suck it up. My point is that there are certain times where crying is inappropriate. At work is one. In a mall food court is another. The whole point is that men (and women) should avoid being in these situations when control is an issue. There’s a reason that employers offer bereavement leave.

Cry at funerals. Cry in therapy. Cry at home. Cry when euthanizing a pet. Cry after messy breakups/divorce. But don’t cry at work, don’t cry on a date, don’t cry at a job interview, and don’t cry at the food court in the mall. Stay home if you are so unstable that you may break down.

Why is this a “knuckle-dragging” point of view? I honestly don’t understand, and would appreciate a cogent response.

Also, I would imagine it is the rare woman who is attracted to men who cry more than they do. No woman wants a man who can’t cry. That is a given. But are the sensitive types in here honestly arguing that it is not possible to be too prone to tears?

How about if I broke down crying every day after work, because during the “how was your day” discussion, I needed to vent my frustration at my mean ole’ boss? You seriously believe that would be a good thing?

I’m simply saying that it is not a good thing to cry at the slightest provocation. I’m saying that there is a reasonable line to draw. Why does that make me a dick?

I also find it endlessly informative that one of the sensitive types in this thread admits to only crying twice in eight years.

202

Yes, in fact Emmitt came off very poorly for crying in that interview. Every sports announcer who discussed it said it was extremely unusual for him, and they felt it was unfortunate.

Emmitt had the worst game of his career, and it was in the most important game of the season for him. That’s unfortunate. To cry about it, citing having a healthy daughter as more important, is in extremely bad form.

Why is it bad form, you ask? Because he has abandoned his family, who remain in Dallas, to play a season in Arizona for a no-account team, for no reason other than selfish pride, and his performance is unbelievably poor. There is no justification for his decision to mar his legacy so severely, especially considering that he can’t be with his family in order to accomplish it. To cry about it on national television is pathetic.

If all that matters is his family, (and for Emmitt I agree that that is exactly the right priority right now), then why the hell didn’t he retire last year? Why doesn’t he retire now? Don’t cry about it, you pussy. Take action to correct the problem. The problem is completely his doing. He should fix it, not cry about it.

203

I find it amusing that the “enlightened” are so quick to turn to those juvenile tools of debate: implying someone is gay and wishing homosexual rape on them.

204

OK, so let’s have an example please of people who have said that crying in public at all times, for any occasion, is acceptable.

Compare this to the list of people who claim that it’s never acceptable for a man to cry in public:

And that’s just from the first page. Your turn - please provide a cite of someone who’s disagreed with you.

205

That’s my whole point. The argument we knuckle-draggers are making is this:

It is never appropriate for a man to cry in public. Do it in the privacy of your own home. (Supported nicely by your quotes…thanks.)

The counter-argument is that men are humans with emotions, and therefore it is healthy for men to cry.

Do you see the disconnect there?

206

The flaw in your argument is that you think grief is such a neatly controlled process, that those in the middle of it can nicely wait till they’re in a private place before giving in to it.

The person of the OP may have happily gone to the Mall, feeling themselves past the worst, on the mend, and so on. They meet up with the OP, and something happens. Perhaps their ex’s new partner is there. Perhaps the OP displays some of the tact their post shows them to possess, and mentions he was banging the guys ex anyway, so no big loss. The next thing you know, they find themselves crying.

Now do you really think they would have gone there with the plan “a bite to eat, and a brief public breakdown”? You think it’s likely they did it on purpose?

Perhaps there are people who thrive on such public displays of emotion. I can’t say I know anyone who does, or would go for such a thing, but if that’s what you’re thinking of then I agree - it would be shoddy, unimpressive behaviour.

But failing that, then what you are condemning is someone being overcome by grief. You are claiming that this is something that can always be controlled. I would argue, with absolute certainty, that you’re wrong. Anyone, even the most vocally macho of us, can see or experience things that would leave them a sobbing mess. No-one is claiming this should be a run of the mill event, or an everyday occurence in the workplace. But I do find it amazing that some people are more prepared to condemn someone they see crying at work, rather than actually ask if they can help.

207

Even if you’re able to cry, I don’t really think you should be crying 24/7. I mean, if you’re crying so much you can’t do anything else, I think we can all agree it’s time to see a professional.

I think most macho guys who are in touch with their emotions can cry AND kill the occasional bug without much trouble.

208

Gary Kumquat, I disagree. I think you can stop the tears if you have to. What if you’re on the highway driving your young children around and the emotion hits you? You suck it up and get your kids home safely. That’s my whole argument…there is a time and a place, we can in fact exercise control, and we should exercise that control until we can get to the proper time and place.

This debate reminds me of the “sometimes men just can’t stop having sex” debate. Of course you can always stop…what if her father busts into the room with a baseball bat? Same with crying. Yes we are emotional beings. Yes we also have a thing called self-control. Yes we should use that.

I see now that the past half-hour I spent digging up the cites you requested is pretty much moot, but I’m not going to throw away all this work for nothing. So here are the cites you requested:

BlackKnight: “Is it OK for men to cry in public?” Ok with whom? With you, apparantly not. With me, yes.

Idlewild: Geez. Of course it’s OK for a man to cry in public.

Mangetout: It isn’t cool for a man to cry in public, but then again, being cool is totally fucking pointless, so yes, it’s OK for a man to cry in public.

Zebra: If you ask me a real man would cry where ever he god damn want to cry and people don’t like it can go to hell.

Moo the Magic Cow: Doesn’t matter much to me, I don’t see what society has against men crying. The ‘when it is acceptable to cry’ lists are shameful. Like I’m supposed to jot down all this crap about sports victories and show strangers the list when the bulls win the pennant – no way. I’m an emotional, moody bastard, I’ll cry whenever it suits me.

robertliguori: No, you acknowledge a subset of stupid, contradictory, and arbitrary rules as valid. You therefore both make and follow them.

Now here’s where the disconnect kicks in full force:

Cosmopolitan: I’m saddened to see that some men feel that they (and their brethren) shouldn’t ever express emotion by crying. Luckily for me, I can cry over it; I’m a woman.

iampunha: If crying in public is wrong, I don’t want to be right.

Cervaise: And to everybody who’s trying to make the case that it’s rarely if ever acceptable for a man to cry, I hope you get volume discounts on the Band-Aids to patch up your dragging knuckles.

pencilpusher: …They say that stuffing your emotions like you all are talking about is bad for your health…

gallows fodder: And now, my brother and I have a great relationship with our dad. He changed so much for the better after he grieved…

WTF? Every single “knuckle dragger” included grieving as an appropriate time to cry. Again I ask, WTF? I can only assume gallows fodder’s dad did his grieving in a mall food court, making the post on-topic. Back to cites…

gobear: Anybody here ever read John 11:35? It reads “Jesus wept”. That’s right, the Sonf of God wept at the death of a friend. Seems to me that a carpenter who willingly dies an agonizing death to redem humanity is no sissy, yet He wept.

When I stayed on topic by pointing out that the Jesus example was irrelevant due to grieving being an appropriate time to cry, and also that he probably wasn’t in a bazaar at the time, nothing but the chirping of crickets responded. (I was attacked for my baseless attack on Christ. I should learn not to derail my own arguments.)

gobear continues: Go bak and read Homer, his heroes wept when they felt strong emotion. Ditto for the Viking warriors in the Norse sagas. Are you going to call them sissies?

I did, citing raping and pillaging as immature actions. I was angrily villified for this. I still feel my counter to this was correct, and am wondering if LaurAnge suffers from BPD.

All of the attacks by the sensitive crowd finally, at this point, instigate the chest thumping, which finally derails the entire thread. Citing more clear examples of the disconnect:

Civil Twilight: C’mon, people, really . . . Can’t we get past these gender stereotypes already? It’s 2003 for cryin’ out loud. Men and women are human beings and experience emotion. It’s dangerous to send men the message that showing emotions in healthy ways (crying, moping, etc.) is weak, as men are forced to release their emotions through “manly” means like anger and violence. If you want to surround yourself with “real men” that would rather beat the crap out of someone than mope a little while, be my guest.

Mangetout: I’m aghast at the amount of macho posturing we’ve seen in this thread; it’s OK guys, you can give it a rest now - I got the message - you have really phenomenally large penises and I should stand in awe.

Jack Batty: But if a cry sneaks up on me and takes me over, I wouldn’t care if I was on TV, let alone in public.

Zebra: So, If I were to get into a wreck on the HWY with Mrs. Zebra and Mrs. Zebra died in that accident but I somehow walked away. I should not cry to the heavens there over my wife’s dead body becasue it would inconvenience you to have to watch it!?!?!?!?!

spooje: Yeah, gobear is right. It’s not courage or manliness or dignity that keeps us guys from crying. It fear. It’s weakness.

I would like to point out that TVeblen made a wonderfully insightful post citing an example of why it might be appropriate to cry in public. I would say, to continue his particular debate, that we should try to stay home until we feel more stable.

Spooje: It’s not self-control we’re talking about here. No one has bad mouthed self-control. The machismo thing was some posters calling men who cry ‘sissies’.

Ah, now we’re getting somewhere. The disconnect has finally been noticed. But Spooje is mistaken; self-control is exactly what this thread is about.

The Great Unwashed: Who are all you “men shouldn’t cry” fuckers? And what is your problem? Get off your fucking high horses, you cowboys and cowgirls, you he-men and she-women, you troglodytes, you throwbacks, get into the 21st century and get some fucking perspective. You sad little wankers.

Um, the answer to your question is “nobody in this thread.”

At this point, the thread degenerates into name-calling.

209

I’ll go along with that scenario. It doesn’t seem like too much of a stretch. In fact, it seems quite reasonable.

My argument is that when the trigger occurs, and the tears start coming, you immediately stand up and walk briskly to either your car, or the nearest bathroom, wiping tears away as you go. Once there, you allow yourself to break down. Ideally, you manage to mumble something to your friend like “I need a minute” as you leave.

210

Here’s a question for those defending crying in the food court. He had a breakdown, fine, but why wasn’t he the one to get up and go to the bathroom?

I know that if it was me that was overcome, I’d have left so as to avoid making a scene.

DirtyKash was craven for making up an excuse to go to the bathroom. But why was it him and not the other guy who left? Seems to me that what the guy should have done is take himself out of public when the tears hit, and DirtyKash should have followed and comforted him in private.

211

Perhaps you could answer your own question.

Knowing that there is a general stigma for men to cry in public, why would he have willingly done this?

To repeat myself, do you think he’d have chosen to do it willingly. Hell, most men (myself included) would rather break a limb than make a public spectacle of themselves.

So, either the person in question was somehow deliberately seeking bad attention and condemnation, or he was upset enough not to care. If it’s the latter, is it more appropriate to judge him, or to try to help?

Perhaps you disagree with my take. If so, please answer your own question.

212

It’s possible. Most of us have known people that crave attention so badly that the will take any form of attention - even if it is negative.

Now, I don’t know why this guy didn’t get up. But, if I may be allowed a little amatuer psychology leeway, I think the most likely explanation was that he no longer has a partner to share his emotions with. His loneliness and despair come to a head and the tears flow. However, instead of dealing with his grief in a solitary manner, he desperately reaches out to those around him. Anyone around him. His tears are a plea for support from the strangers around him.

It may be understandable, but it is still the actions of a child. An adult would not have sought solace from complete strangers, but rather from his friend alone by moving to a less public place.

213

I don’t have a problem with that. That, at least, seems the courteous thing to do. And if he did that, I certainly don’t think there should be any stigm attached.

However, even if this indivual had done that, it wouldn’t have saved him from the scorn and derision of the OP and some of the others. They have been saying that a man should NOT cry, basically because it’s not manly.

214

I think I may be to blame for the degeneration of this thread by pointing out what I perceived to be macho posturing, unfortunately though, my accusation (whether or not it was valid) was met by unequivocable examples of genuine macho posturing).

I don’t think that crying is a desirable goal, I just think it is something that sometimes happens and is really hard to avoid, in fact I think the effort of avoiding it may, in some circumstances, possibly be psychologically damaging (just an opinion, don’t ask me for a cite).

no, I’m not particularly comfortable with seeing other people cry in public, but then I’m not particularly comfortable with seeing people accidentally injure themselves in public - it’s just something that happens from time to time and you know what? Life is not The Mangetout Show - it isn’t solely about what makes me feel comfortable.

215

Ellis Dee, nowhere in the quotes you cited did I say that sniveling is acceptable; it isn’t. But sniveling and weeping over trivi is not the same thing as expressing the pain of a divorce! I’m a big fan of stoicism and keeping your composure under stress, but if you never express your emotions, you’re likely to die of a stroke or a heart attack much sooner than you should.

And I can’t believe this thread has gotten this long and nobody has mentioned Free To Be . . . You and Me. If Rosie Grier says “It’s Alright to Cry,” I don’t think anybody here is big enough to contradict him.
Moreover, this thread has made me incredibly grateful to be gay because we gay men have been freed from the constricting bullshit straight men have to hide behind.

There’s a reason that women prefer to hang with gay men; we have defined our masculinity for ourselves instead of letting others do it for us. We can kill bugs AND we can listen and weep with our friends.

And not one of you guys is tough in any way that counts. A Latina hotel maid who has to get up at 5, ride a bus for two hours each way to work a grueling, low-paid job in order to raise her kids–THAT’s tough. Building an endtable or kiling bugs is small potatoes to that.

216

Not even Rosie Grier?

Is that guys in general, or just us wimps on the SDMB?

217

I’m just saying the the conventional tough guy posturing really counts for very little compared to the strength required to live a difficult life.

Let’s see one of you guys give birth and not cry.

218

It’s only by sheer will power that I’m holding back a number of comments on food babies and breach births.

Scotland - leading the world in jobbie humour.

219

Is it only Latina hotel maids or are the others of different ethnicities tough, too? Why, in fact, did you find it necessary to specify an ethnic background for said hotel maid at all?

Also, that is a baseless statement for you to make, considering that you know virtually nothing about the work history of those at whom you are railing.

It’s funny, too, how you seem to have granted yourself the office of Spokesman For All Gay Men. One of my favorite brother officers is gay. I’m always pleased to work with him because he is tough, emotionally steady, and knows the job. Neither he nor his companion are much like you present yourself here, nor (I suspect) would they think they need you to speak for them about what gay men are or should be like.

p.s.
Loo E.B,
You’re so emotionally overwrought that you have ovelooked the obvious.
3 kids from 3 states = 3 mailmen.
It wasn’t the mailman who was determined, it was Mrs. Loo E.B.

220

I can see you’ve never worked in a hotel.

Um, how is having an opinion not " tough, emotionally steady, and knowing the job"?

And I am not the Sokemen for All Gay Men (that’s Esprix), but I have, I suspect, much more of an insight into the differences between gay and straight men than you do.

In any event, enjoy your early death from stress.