Neat example. Except doctors ultimately decided that the partial paralysis was more likely caused by a viral infection. Babysitter was cleared of all charges. link
When we raised out kids we didn’t believe in putting things out of reach so the kids wouldn’t play with them, we didn’t believe that kids should ever be out of control. By the age of two a well trained child will likley never need any spankings. I believe disclipline should be consistent and happen very quickly, no counting to 3. If a child is told to stop and doesn’t stop instantaneously a light rap on the butt will quickly follow. A child who knows his or her boundaries and trusts the parents judgement will be a happy secure child. Anger should never be associated with a spanking.
I once had to fasten two boards together. I had a nail. I took my hammer and used it to drive the nail through the boards. They are still held firmly together to this day. Since a hammer and nail have been proven to hold 2 boards together, why would one ever choose a screw and driver? Or lag bolt and wrench? Or adhesive? Or some combination?
IOW, disciplinary methods that worked on you (and children of similar disposition) may well not work in all other situations.
Doesn’t change the fact that it’s a news article about a kid on life support after a spanking, which was the criterion 6 set. he said nothing about the spanking being proved causative.
Do you really believe that that’s what he meant or are you just being obtuse?
No, I’m being acute.
Like most big questions, you can decide the issue is black and white, i.e., any corporal punishment is bad and must/can not happen. Any physical intervention is the equivalent of the extreme example you cite. Or you can decide the issue is gray and there are degrees and that rare, non-abusive situations can happen and are fine.
So it goes. No one’s mind is changing.
Understood. But I’m not on the side espousing obvious counterfactuals like ‘spanking is pain-free’, so as far as I’m concerned, it’s never going to be non-abusive.
If I were ever tempted to change my username, Espouser of Obvious Counterfactuals would have to be up there. Thank you.
I stress about so many choices and decisions as a parent. My list of regrets, failures, second guesses, etc., are huge because I am human. Part of my struggle as a parent is to reflect on that while staying focused on being the best parent I can be right now. Whether a swat was OMG!! ABUSE!! when my daughter was two is simply a non-issue. We have a great relationship as we enter into her 15 year/heart of teenager period. Who knows from there ;).
Minor ETA: going back to the OP, it does ask about an “old style” spanking - over the knee, 3-8 hard spanks, likely a bare bottom. To be clear: no flippin’ way.
I agree. I think that people who are in favor of using this, apparently painless way of startling kids should find a new word to describe what they’re doing. Most spankers set out to cause some pain. How is it easier to lump yourself in with these people, then try and change the definition of the word?
At least you’re not claiming to be right.
So if you found an article about a kid who was involved in a serious car accident with his family one hour after being spanked, would you have used that as an example of a child being on life support after a spanking too?
If the headline was “Kid on life support after spanking”, yes, I would - I’m not in any way using it as proof spankings cause comas, I’m using it as a pointer that whether one has encountered newspaper articles oneself isn’t the best way of proving there’s no ill effects from spankings, as newspapers aren’t really a good source, so stuff like “I’ve yet to come across a news report” is meaningless .
Of course, the myriad studies done that show it’s a terrible practice, with long-lasting effects, are the best way to show the opposite.
No, it’s not ok. Just because I am bigger and stronger than a child does not give me the right to physically dominate them.
I think it’s almost always a sign that you’ve run out of better things to try, and you (the parent) have lost the battle. Now, there may well be some kids that it is worthwhile - but it was never a useful tactic with my kids.
See, I went into it thinking “no spank, nohow”. Then both of my kids were getting into some enormous periods of violent, nobody-home-in-their-head tantrums, and I tried the “just smack their bottom once or twice and that’ll get their attention” tactic.
It did not work. In neither case did the child even NOTICE. I’m quite sure I could have stopped the tantrum - by beating the child unconscious. Not surprisingly, I did not go that route :(.
We DID do the one-or-two cautionary swats when the child did something actively dangerous - running away into traffic, not coming when we called when outdoors, and so on. I think we may have done this about 4 times per kid. The time my daughter stuck her hand into the flame on the gas stove (or tried to, I think my reflexes stopped her in time) I’m fairly certain my shriek of terror as I grabbed her scared her more than the quick two swats she got on her bottom.
The few times my son had temper tantrums my mother’s idea of fixing it was to beat him. Seemed dumb to me, like throwing gasoline on a fire hoping to put it out.
When my son had tantrum I’d put him on my lap. I’d wrap my legs around his so he couldn’t kick, I’d wrap my arms around him so he couldn’t hit. I’d hold him. He’d wiggle and squirm and try to get away and I’d just hold him. Then he start screaming for me to let him go and I’d tell him no, as long as he was out of control I couldn’t let him go because I couldn’t let him hurt himself or anybody else. Eventually, he’d calm down and I’d let him go.
It worked pretty well.
Although I’d tell anybody who wants to try it make sure to turn your head or move it away, unless you want a broken nose. Toddlers have hard heads.
I’ve heard that throwing water on a tantruming child will often stop that dead in its tracks. What do those of you who have done this have to say about it?
I’m guessing that wouldn’t be particularly effective nearwildhaven I always joke about that with my wife, buying a spray bottle for them like a cat and spraying when they do something wrong. I’ve splashed water at them from the sink a couple times but they loved it, they just wanted more, maybe they would laugh instead of throwing a tantrum but they wouldn’t stop doing the thing I told them not to do, in my case pulling stuff out of the dishwasher, but I wouldn’t spank my kids for that anyway, they are just playing.
I don’t think spanking is necessarily wrong and I went to college in psychology and behavioral neuroscience. The counter-arguments always sounded like hippy-trippy justification rather than real evidence at least the way I see it. I went to a public high school that had corporal punishment as an option. Some people see that as barbaric but it was actually the opposite. The choice was always 3 licks (with a paddle), three days suspension or three weekend days of detention. Only an idiot would take anything other than the paddling. It didn’t hurt at all and it was over in a matter of seconds never to be discussed again. I honestly wish that was still an option in the working world. I wish I could pick a ritualistic paddling over even the most mundane management lectures that I have been forced to sit through over the years because that would have been much more convenient.
My parents spanked me only a few times and it was always well deserved and a special event. They never tried to actually hurt me because the spankings themselves didn’t really hurt at all. It was just a notice that I did something extra-special wrong that had to be addressed. I have done the same with my daughters. My oldest daughter is a kind soul that will not even try to defend herself from her little sister who is, quite frankly, a bully.
My daughters didn’t know that I was watching this past weekend when my youngest escalated an otherwise calm situation and kicked her sister straight in the knee very hard making her double over and cry out in pain and legitimately so. I swooped in, spanked her hard and put the fear of God in her through a loud lecture that would make a drill sergeant proud. Nothing else has worked but that approach seems to and I do not regret it. She is a very talented and beautiful girl but she does have some not so kind tendencies that lots of people have complained about and it is my job as her father to bring her back in line while she is young.
Casual spanking and actual beatings are completely different concepts. The former is meant to shame and not inflict physical harm while the latter is physical retribution specifically intended to cause physical pain. As long as we keep those concepts separate, I am in favor of limited spankings and corporal punishment but obviously not physical abuse.
I’m pretty sure that’s for dogs going at it. Tantruming kids you rub peanut butter in their hair.