Taken within the context of my previous comments, logic would assert that, yes.
Mr Dibble, a spanking is not a beating, and a discussion is not a fight.
Fifty of these :smack: :dubious: to add to WordMan’s, for being frustratingly irrational and unneccessarily confrontational.
Do you WANT a smack…??..
Given the picayune distinctions being made between spanking and beating, I didn’t feel it safe to assume logic was in play.
And Argument by Assertion isn’t a debate winner.
I’m being perfectly rational, I don’t see the difference between spanking and beating as anything other than degree.
Speaking of “unnecessarily confrontational”… you must have me confused with a helpless child.
Honestly? It sounds like the word “spanking” has acquired some personal connotations for you that no amount of discussion will be able to dislodge. But the way many of us use the word, there is a clear difference, which some of us (including myself) have tried to elaborate on.
Is the difference between hitting someone with a Nerf ball and hitting someone with a brick only one of degree?
No, because a Nerf ball doesn’t cause pain, like a brick does. But spanking does cause pain, despite claims to the contrary, so the analogy is flawed.
It’s perfectly possible to beat someone so that it leaves no apparent injury, but causes lots of pain. So fixating on injury is a non-starter. Address the issue of pain first.
ETA: IANAL, but it’s my understanding both of your examples are clear cases of battery.
The only apparent confusion here is your own. And if I were to think of you as a child, it would be a petulant and annoying one, who’s bit rough in the the playground and hopeless at comprehension.
I’m sure someone’s going to pillory me for this, but another very valid component of spanking is a psychological one.
To wit: It’s essentially showing your children that you have the monopoly on force; that you aren’t to be trifled with, and your decisions are law. It’s very similar to the way that the States and Federal government keep their control of the military and the ability to imprison/execute those convicted of breaking their laws. While their ultimate legitimacy comes from the people, the exercise of that legitimacy comes from the exclusive ability to use deadly force.
Spanking is much the same with children- as a parent, YOU are the final authority to them, and they need to be aware of that. Not in some kind of police state kind of way brought on by repeated and capricious corporal punishment, but in a way that reinforces that there are things that ARE NOT DONE, and that doing them gets you a spanking. It’s kind of the greatest show of power that you have as a parent- it shouldn’t be used at all lightly, but it’s something that under certain circumstances should be used to reinforce a point.
I’m not the one threatening physical violence over an internet discussion, mate.
Well, if being annoying’s the only cassus belli you need for threatening to dole out physical punishment, you’re not really selling me on your rational application of corporal punishment. Sound more like you’ll happily lash out when piqued. So much for ‘immediate danger or injurious crisis’.
What you say there is laugably stupid and worth no further comment - I just wanted to point out that I’m not your ‘mate’ - no matter how passively aggressively you want to put that.
You’re not selling me on anything here. Most notably your comprehension skills.
I am SO with WordMan.
I appreciate that, but I am not sure I would reply to other POV’s so aggressively. I respect the fact that MrDibble’s and other folks’ mindsets are NOT going to change. This is an anonymous message board - it doesn’t lend itself to conflict resolution, per se 
MrD views all spanking as painful and cruel, as do other posters. I know that when I spanked my kids maybe 2-3 times each when they were toddlers, it was with swats, through diapers and clothes. I do NOT see that causing pain, I believe they were startled by the swats more than anything.
Thanks WordMan - I appreciate your point, and am in absolute agreement with your swats-for-startling comment. Certainly my association with being smacked as a kid is always the sound, the sting and the surprise. Never any pain.
Well said, bump. Most notably that it’s not to be used lightly, but to reinforce the who’s-running-the-show-here aspect.
I appreciate that you don’t have an adequate reply, yes.
Do you often read hostility in neutral statement? This might explain your aggressive-aggressiveness.
That’s clear, since you’re the one who turned to empty physical threats.
What do you think startled them, if not pain? IME, spanking involves pain and I consider it disingenuous to say there’s no pain involved. Yes, it’s not permanent injury, yes, the pain doesn’t linger. But the sensation that startles the child is a pain reaction.
Or else you’d startle the kid with a hug, instead.
Do you have kids? If a toddler is fully absorbed in their (not okay) behavior, any variety of stimuli can trigger tears. At some level, they know they are getting busted/not getting their way. A sharp “whoa!” or “hey!” of surprised disapproval can cause immediate tears more often than not. If, however, that type of approach isn’t working with a non-executive-functioning toddler, then a swat on a diapered, clothed tush is nothing close to a belt, or a hair brush on a bare butt or other forms of WTF corporal punishment. All IMHO of course. And again - rarely.
For the second time in this thread - yes. And I’m not questioning that kids can be startled, I’m questioning that hitting one won’t cause pain.
Sure, OK. Better make sure you keep firm hold of that monopoly on force, though. Because if you’re depending on it - if your kids knowing that you can hurt them if they resist your control is the ultimate tool keeping them in line - then you’re in big trouble once you can’t use it anymore.
So it’s a good thing that kids never grow larger and stronger! Bullet dodged there!
Given the number of people in this thread alone who grew up to recognize that spanking can be appropriate discipline, and did not seize the opportunity to spank their parents as soon as they got big enough, I don’t find that prediction particularly ominous.
Regards,
Shodan
The fact that you think the consequence I refer to is kids spanking their parents - snorkle snorkle har har har - kind of underlines how pitiful and unimaginative spanking is as a punishment.
The point, of course, is not that kids will grow up to spank their parents. It’s that they will at some point recognize their parents as weak, with authority propped up by nothing other than their physical superiority. Over an 8-year-old.
My own father never raised a hand to me, not once in my life. He didn’t say do what I say or I’ll hurt you, which would have been a convenient solution in the moment but which would have had no staying power. He instead said do what is right because it’s right, which lasts and which means that I still, to this day, view him as a formidable person to be admired.
And here’s the thing: it worked. Right? I mean, I grew up well-disciplined and successful in school. I’m a voting adult with a full time job and a family of well behaved children who also have never been spanked. I - and many others - am living, breathing, vaguely asthmatic proof that it is possible, with a bit of wit and willingness to try complicated solutions, to raise good kids without ever once striking them.
Given that - given that not spanking has been proven to work - why would you ever choose to spank?
God I’m so glad you made her stop doing this. I remember being pinched plenty. What I don’t remember is the oh-so-egregious mistake I made to get pinched. I had bruises! I learned nothing from this so-called discipline except that adults could literally leave bruises on your skin and even raising your eyes back was considered extreme disrespect.
And no, I don’t call one swat on the diaper clad butt of a child spanking. Those are not the kinds of spankings I got, though. I got the ones where your dad hangs onto your arm with one of his and beats your ass until you are screaming. All that taught me was that dad was bigger and meaner and could do what he wanted, and that I was always wrong.
I also got beat with a high-heeled shoe. I remember the mistake I made then. I was only allowed to ride my bike to the end of the apartment complex we were in and I rode it to the gas station just outside of it to get some candy. For this I was beaten with a hand, then a spatula, and then a high-heeled shoe. If I sit and think about this for too long, or the other spankings, I don’t think, “my parents spanked me and I turned out great”, I think that I hate them. I hate them for being cruel assholes who thought it was ok to beat a child that was pushing her boundaries as is natural.
I try not to think about it too much because, hell’s bells, I’m 39 and over it, but no, I don’t have fond memories of spanking and don’t think it did me better.
Yea, I’m not a parent. Yea, I don’t understand your special circumstances that caused you to spank your child - not the single swat on the diaper-clad butt, but a proper, humiliating, spanking. But I still think it’s not OK.
This.
That doesn’t seem to have happened either.
Regards,
Shodan
I have raised my kids with no punishments and no rewards. We use natural consequences, almost exclusively. In the “safety” example people keep bringing up, we would have to resort to a logical consequence - "we have to go inside now because I have to keep you safe. "
What are we trying to teach kids by spanking when they run into the road? Wouldn’t you rather the kid not run into the road because they have self-control vs. not doing it because Dad is around?