Is it possible I've missed out on this Palin person?

[Starving_Artist]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

And once again, she is clearly trying to bluff it as ssome kind of foreign policy credential.

So you can’t point to any specific thing she said in an effort to claim foreign policy expertise, it’s just that you’ve chosen to interpret it that way. Correct?

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

“I can see Russia from my house” is a perfectly accurate satirization of what she said.

a.) How can a satirization be accurate? By definition satirizations are a distortion of fact.

And in the sense you mean it, how can it be accurate if leftie hotheads present it as true and their hapless audience accepts it that way. I’d wager there are millions of people in this country who think she actually said that, and the reason is that the satire has been making the rounds as truth ever since it aired.

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

I’m 44, by the way.

Thanks. Don’t know where the 35 came from. (Still, I was watching SNL before you were… ;))

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Starving_Artist

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

And once again, she is clearly trying to bluff it as ssome kind of foreign policy credential.

So you can’t point to any specific thing she said in an effort to claim foreign policy expertise, it’s just that you’ve chosen to interpret it that way. Correct?

She brought it up repeatedly as a direct answer to questions about her foreign policy credentials. yes, the US and Russia are “neighbors” across the Bering Straight. So fucking what? What does that have to do with the question she was asked?

a.) How can a satirization be accurate? By definition satirizations are a distortion of fact.

Satirizations are accurate if they highlight an essential truth. They are truth by exaggeration. Tina Fey’s characterization was a fair simplification of what Palin said.

And in the sense you mean it, how can it be accurate if leftie hotheads present it as true

Who presents the Tina Fey line as true?

I’ve watched SNL since its original cast, by the way.

[foolsguinea]

Dio, you may be trying too hard to defend Tina Fey here.

Starving Artist, you’re cherry-picking Palin quotes.

“As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where– where do they go? It’s Alaska. It’s just right over the border.” --Sarah Palin, explaining why Alaska’s proximity to Russia gives her foreign policy experience, interview with CBS’s Katie Couric, Sept. 24, 2008

Oh, & since I got that quote from this page, a couple more reasons I deplore her:

“We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada. And I think now, isn’t that ironic?” --Sarah Palin, admitting that her family used to get treatment in Canada’s single-payer health care system, despite having demonized such government-run programs as socialized medicine that will lead to death-panel-like rationing, March 6, 2010

“The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.” –-Sarah Palin, in a message posted on Facebook about Obama’s health care plan, Aug. 7, 2009

In short, she misrepresented the nature of health care reform to deny subsidized health care to people in Middle America. How many now think that Canada has death panels? She boosted that little bandwagon enthusiastically, & she hurt Americans. As someone who does not believe in a personal afterlife, I want her to suffer in this one until she repents, loudly, publicly, & repeatedly.

[Starving_Artist]

@Robot_Arm

@Starving_Artist

2.) She didn’t try to claim the U.S. and Russia were neighbors;

She said that Alaska and Russia are neighbors. I think even Sarah Palin knows that Alaska is part of the U.S.

Now you’re being silly. If I’m the governor of Florida and I’m in the running for vice-president and I make a comment to the effect of Florida being neighbors with the Bahamas, would you expect people to automatically interpret that to mean I was saying the U.S. is neighbors with the Bahamas? If I were the governor of Wisconsin and I made some remark about Canada, my state’s neighbor to the north, would you be thinking in terms of Texas and California and Hawaii as you were listening to what he said?

I don’t think so.

@Robot_Arm

@Starving_Artist

and 3.), She never claimed nor implied that her proximity to Russia provided her with any sort of standing on foreign policy.

She was asked a question about foreign policy with regards to Russia, and she brought up, unbidden, that it is geographically close to Alaska. That makes the connection. If it’s not a reflection on her experience and qualification, why bring it up?

I think anyone following the interview and not vested in trying to make Palin look bad would know instantly why she brought it up. Gibson was angling to try to box her into an awkward situation by pitting her support of Georgia against the desires of Russia. She brought up Russia’s proximity and her view of them as neighbors in order to show that she was not antagonistic toward Russia and felt that Russia and the Western powers would benefit mutually by getting along well with each other. This isn’t rocket science.

@Robot Arm

But suppose she really didn’t mean it in that sense. She is then asked directly what insight the proximity has given her. If she felt that there was no connection, and that her remarks had been misconstrued, then this was the perfect opportunity to refudiate it. She didn’t.

When could she have ‘refudiated’ it? Are you saying that the very occasion that gave rise to her comments being miscontrued was the same occasion that gave her the opportunity to correct it? She couldn’t have known there was anything to refudiate until after the interview aired, could she?

@Robot Arm

If we can’t draw that conclusion from the interview, then what can we? What was Palin trying to say?

She was trying to do several things: avoid being hemmed in by Gibson vis-a-vis Georgia and Russia; state publically that she favored good relationships between the West and Russia; and deflect Gibson’s question about her foreign policy expertise. Those are reality of what she was trying to do. In my opinion a person could legitimately make the observation that she was trying to avoid answering Gibson’s question because she had next to no foreign policy experience or knowledge, and they would be correct. I have no problem however with her giving Gibson a non-answer because non-answers to difficult questions have become de riguer for all politicians lately, most notably Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

@Robot Arm

Take away the proximity/experience connection, and there’s nothing left.

On this statement you won’t get much objection from me.
[/quote]
As much as Palin would like to get publicity without without being tied to any specific content, she doesn’t get to make that call.
[/QUOTE]
Whether she does or doesn’t is completely beside the point. She was asked what she was asked and she said what she said. Her comments should stand or fall based upon what she actually said and meant and not the distortions and lies that her opponents turn them into. I have no objection to people who want to criticize her for her lack of experience or her failure to give substantial answers to reporters’ questions. What I object to are her words being distorted or lied about by her opponents in a deliberate attempt to make her and her supporters look stupid.

Now having said all this, I gotta go. I’ll have to catch you later, foolsguinea, but having given your post just a quick glance and not clicked the link, I have to say that the Putin quote as posted does not support your interpretation of it.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Starving_Artist

@Robot_Arm

She said that Alaska and Russia are neighbors. I think even Sarah Palin knows that Alaska is part of the U.S.

Now you’re being silly. If I’m the governor of Florida and I’m in the running for vice-president and I make a comment to the effect of Florida being neighbors with the Bahamas, would you expect people to automatically interpret that to mean I was saying the U.S. is neighbors with the Bahamas?

Of course. I’m not sure why you think there’s any kind of distinction there, or why anyone should think there’s embarrassing about subbing in “the US” for the name of the closest state. As a matter of geographical fact, the US and Russia are “neighbors” across the the Bering Strait. Why do you think that’s a ridicuolus thing to say?

If I were the governor of Wisconsin and I made some remark about Canada, my state’s neighbor to the north, would you be thinking in terms of Texas and California and Hawaii as you were listening to what he said?

That’s not the same thing, but if he said the US and Canada were neighbors, he would be correct.

I think anyone following the interview and not vested in trying to make Palin look bad would know instantly why she brought it up. Gibson was angling to try to box her into an awkward situation by pitting her support of Georgia against the desires of Russia.

Oh noes, he asked a Vice Presidential candidate a question about how to deal with a difficult foreign policy issue. Poor, poor Sarah. They would never ask HUSSEIN Obama any hard foreign policy questions…oh, wait, they DID repeatedly, throught the campaign, and he answered them coherently. Where do you righties get the idea that it’s somehow unfair to ask a political candidate substantive questions?

[Robot_Arm]

@Starving_Artist

@Robot_Arm

She said that Alaska and Russia are neighbors. I think even Sarah Palin knows that Alaska is part of the U.S.

Now you’re being silly. If I’m the governor of Florida and I’m in the running for vice-president and I make a comment to the effect of Florida being neighbors with the Bahamas, would you expect people to automatically interpret that to mean I was saying the U.S. is neighbors with the Bahamas?

No, but I would think that you brought it up because it had some relevance to what we were talking about. If you state specifically that you’re closer to the Bahamas than the rest of the U.S., then that proximity must mean something to you. Have you met Bahamians, is your state a gateway to people travelling there, does that impact your economy, do you follow the same hurricane forecasts, grow the same crops and compete in the same markets? There must be some reason you’d bring it up. In a political interview with a Vice Presidential candidate, on the topic of foreign policy, the clear inference is that proximity leads to experience and judgment that will be useful when it comes to setting foreign policy.

I think anyone following the interview and not vested in trying to make Palin look bad would know instantly why she brought it up. Gibson was angling to try to box her into an awkward situation by pitting her support of Georgia against the desires of Russia.

She was running for the vice presidency. It’s entirely possible that she would be in a position to make choices that balanced the interests of Georgia against Russia, and those choices would have to be backed up by the full force of the U.S. government and military. Under the circumstances, it is precisely Gibson’s job to ask her those sorts of questions.

I’ve heard many people defend Palin’s performance in interviews as being the result of “gotcha journalism”. Please give me an example of a question that Charlie Gibson or Katie Couric could ask that would NOT be gotcha journalism.

When could she have ‘refudiated’ it? Are you saying that the very occasion that gave rise to her comments being miscontrued was the same occasion that gave her the opportunity to correct it?

Yes, that is exactly what I’m saying. Palin made (for whatever reason) a statement about Alaska’s proximity to Russia. Gibson followed that up with a question asking her to clarify and expand upon the statement. It was quite clear from the question what his inference was. If that was not the meaning that she intended, she had ample opportunity to explain herself further right then and there.

[Little_Nemo]

GIBSON: Let’s start, because we are near Russia, let’s start with Russia and Georgia.

The administration has said we’ve got to maintain the territorial integrity of Georgia. Do you believe the United States should try to restore Georgian sovereignty over South Ossetia and Abkhazia?

PALIN: First off, we’re going to continue good relations with Saakashvili there. I was able to speak with him the other day and giving him my commitment, as John McCain’s running mate, that we will be committed to Georgia. And we’ve got to keep an eye on Russia. For Russia to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a smaller democratic country, unprovoked, is unacceptable and we have to keep…

GIBSON: You believe unprovoked.

PALIN: I do believe unprovoked and we have got to keep our eyes on Russia, under the leadership there. I think it was unfortunate. That manifestation that we saw with that invasion of Georgia shows us some steps backwards that Russia has recently taken away from the race toward a more democratic nation with democratic ideals.That’s why we have to keep an eye on Russia.

And, Charlie, you’re in Alaska. We have that very narrow maritime border between the United States, and the 49th state, Alaska, and Russia. They are our next door neighbors.We need to have a good relationship with them. They’re very, very important to us and they are our next door neighbor.

GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They’re our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

GIBSON: What insight does that give you into what they’re doing in Georgia?

PALIN: Well, I’m giving you that perspective of how small our world is and how important it is that we work with our allies to keep good relation with all of these countries, especially Russia. We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that it’s in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along.

I can’t believe anyone would post this as a defense of Palin. I think it’s an illustration of how incredibly unqualified she is.

She was asked an easy question about a major foreign policy issue of the day - and she couldn’t answer it. Apparently all that her handlers were able to get into her brain was “keep an eye on Russia”.

Here’s a transcript from her interview with Katie Couric:

Couric: You’ve said, quote, “John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does business.” Other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago, can you give us any more example of his leading the charge for more oversight?

Palin: I think that the example that you just cited, with his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie - that, that’s paramount. That’s more than a heck of a lot of other senators and representatives did for us.

Couric: But he’s been in Congress for 26 years. He’s been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.

Palin: He’s also known as the maverick though, taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party. Trying to get people to understand what he’s been talking about - the need to reform government.

Couric: But can you give me any other concrete examples? Because I know you’ve said Barack Obama is a lot of talk and no action. Can you give me any other examples in his 26 years of John McCain truly taking a stand on this?

Palin: I can give you examples of things that John McCain has done, that has shown his foresight, his pragmatism, and his leadership abilities. And that is what America needs today.

Couric: I’m just going to ask you one more time - not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.

Palin: I’ll try to find you some and I’ll bring them to you.

Couric: What’s your position on global warming? Do you believe it’s man-made or not?

Palin: Well, we’re the only Arctic state, of course, Alaska. So we feel the impacts more than any other state, up there with the changes in climates. And certainly, it is apparent. We have erosion issues. And we have melting sea ice, of course. So, what I’ve done up there is form a sub-cabinet to focus solely on climate change. Understanding that it is real. And …

Couric: Is it man-made, though in your view?

Palin: You know there are - there are man’s activities that can be contributed to the issues that we’re dealing with now, these impacts. I’m not going to solely blame all of man’s activities on changes in climate. Because the world’s weather patterns are cyclical. And over history we have seen change there. But kind of doesn’t matter at this point, as we debate what caused it. The point is: it’s real; we need to do something about it.

Couric: If a 15-year-old is raped by her father, do you believe it should be illegal for her to get an abortion, and why?

Palin: I am pro-life. And I’m unapologetic in my position that I am pro-life. And I understand there are good people on both sides of the abortion debate. In fact, good people in my own family have differing views on abortion, and when it should be allowed. Do I respect people’s opinions on this. Now, I would counsel to choose life. I would also like to see a culture of life in this country. But I would also like to take it one step further. Not just saying I am pro-life and I want fewer and fewer abortions in this country, but I want them, those women who find themselves in circumstances that are absolutely less than ideal, for them to be supported, and adoptions made easier.

Couric: But ideally, you think it should be illegal for a girl who was raped or the victim of incest to get an abortion?

Palin: I’m saying that, personally, I would counsel the person to choose life, despite horrific, horrific circumstances that this person would find themselves in. And, um, if you’re asking, though, kind of foundationally here, should anyone end up in jail for having an … abortion, absolutely not. That’s nothing I would ever support.

Couric: Some people have credited the morning-after pill for decreasing the number of abortions. How do you feel about the morning-after pill?

Palin: Well, I am all for contraception. And I am all for preventative measures that are legal and save, and should be taken, but Katie, again, I am one to believe that life starts at the moment of conception. And I would like to see …

Couric: And so you don’t believe in the morning-after pill?

Palin: … I would like to see fewer and fewer abortions in this world. And again, I haven’t spoken with anyone who disagrees with my position on that.

Couric: I’m sorry, I just want to ask you again. Do you not support or do you condone or condemn the morning-after pill.

Palin: Personally, and this isn’t McCain-Palin policy …

Couric: No, that’s OK, I’m just asking you.

Palin: But personally, I would not choose to participate in that kind of contraception.

These were not “gotcha” questions. These were easy questions about legitimate political issue to a person who was running for Vice President. And she was unable to answer them.

[kfraser34]

lol at this exchange from the thread BrainGlutton linked in the second post…

@Malleus_Incus_Stapes

She’s embarrassing all us sane conservatives.

@mswas

Yeah, but there are so few of you.

doctored a bit for effect

[Unintentionally_Blank]

Any truth to the theory that the conservative Democrats of today were the Conservative Republicans of 50 years ago?

[BrainGlutton]

@Unintentionally_Blank

Any truth to the theory that the conservative Democrats of today were the Conservative Republicans of 50 years ago?

No, the conservative Democrats of 50 years ago are the conservative Republicans of today. They changed parties in the '70s and '80s in the wake of Nixon’s “Southern Strategy.”

[elfkin477]

@Unintentionally_Blank

I then found a rather staunch republican co-worker that says that Palin is mis-represented by a liberal biased media and is actually a smart, amazing, person that really is all that and a bag of political chips.

Can that really be possible? Can this thread be debated in a fair and sane matter? Or will it just become opinion, based on the poster’s political leanings?

Your co-worker is wrong. Palin is pretty stupid. There’s a fair amount of bipartisan agreement there.

As a Republican, I’m terrified that she’ll get the party nomination in 2012. I could have lived with her being as useless as Biden is at the moment (McCain hasn’t croaked yet and my 2008 bet on him living out his potential term is already almost half won) but…I welcome her to say many more stupid things in the next year or so, and have a few more scandals, so the worse case scenerio will be her running as a third party (Tea Party) candidate. Of course, a third party candidate could win, and that’d have the bonus of solving that whole global warming problem for us when hell froze over.

[Robot_Arm]

@elfkin477

(McCain hasn’t croaked yet and my 2008 bet on him living out his potential term is already almost half won)

First term only, though. I think the last eligible sitting president who didn’t run for re-election was Johnson.