I don’t WANT to be married to be married to an ideological clone. I WANT someone who can challenge me, who will have a different angle on things. Obviously it CAN work because it HAS worked for me for 13 years.
The OP asked if it was possible to have a successful marriage without sharing the same faith. The answer is absolutely YES as long as you’re a little bit tolerant of other viewpoints.
I really get a giggle out of the certitude with which some of the suspicious comments so far have been made. Folks, open your minds and try not to let a small thing like personal unsupported beliefs (your faith) get in the way of living.
Well, we’ve established that you live life on the edge of the sharp knife called excitement, but have you ever considered that a spouse is NOT your religious accessory? He/she is a fully developed organism completely distinct from you, and not there to be your religious assistant and guide as you pray through your life. You think being a good mother has anything to do with praying or denomination? You believe that a perfect partner must carbon-copy your own flavour of faith? Do you really think that most modern women would put up with the statement about expecting a spouse to fully participate in your faith and support you spiritually?
Actually, it sounds like there were bigger problems than him being an atheistic Jewish guy. It sounds like a problem in communication, and if you have to rely on religion in order to communicate effectively with a partner, well that is a whole set of problems on its own. Is religion the only (or most significant) common ground for you? Judging from your brief post it would seem so.
And why is that? I’m guessing because of your general lack of tolerance, and the fear of being intimate with and vulnerable to a (gasp) heathen who is simply not good enough for your standards (the converse could also be true). No wonder you wouldn’t date them seriously, I don’t think you could bring yourself to respect them sufficiently.
It’s OK when people from, say, Alabama and Texas marry, but it’s not OK if people from New Jersey and Egypt, or from North Carolina and Korea marry. The beliefs of the different cultures are simply too different for bigots to be comfortable with them. It’s all in the closed mind.
Perhaps the fatal flaw in such a marriage would be not the differring beliefs, but the exaggerated emphasis you place on such beliefs. Some people place over-emphasis on skin colour, ethnicity, nationality, language/accent, education, breeding, class, and so forth. In most cases, you’re making a judgement based on intolerace and on perceived differences rather any sort of accurate value judgement or assessment of common ground.
But is it very mature to say some of the things I quoted above? And notice the names of the usual suspects cropping up. There is nothing mature about deciding that a living breathing human being that simply doesn’t happen to share your religious views should not be a suitable partner just because of said religious differences. Why not make the same decision based on skin colour? Or even on which sports team you support (hey, sports can be a big part of some people’s lives). Would you feel comfortable hiring people on such a suspicious basis? Notice that most of the responses here are hardly convincing arguments, tending to refer to Bible passages or similar non-arguments uttered with a wave of the hand. What these decisions tell me is that certain people are unwilling to expose themselves to new ideas. Their religion and spirituality are probably threatened by close proximity to other faiths. Intolerance is an important factor, as always.
Exactly. And please notice the word I put in bold. Amen also to Cervaise and Loinburger’s similar comments.
Now, unlike a couple of the folks posting in this thread I don’t have an issue with religion. That may be in part because I am an agnostic and don’t view religion as significant in the bigger scheme of things (it’s a personal belief for crying out loud) but mostly it’s because I try to appreciate people for who they are rather than the gods and codified beliefs they happen to believe in, which in the overwhelming majority of cases is an issue of indoctrination and not informed choice anyway, so why hold it against them or consider it a virtue? (the answer is tribalism, the same ugly drive that gives rise to nationalism, racism, etc.).
I am a product of a mix myself, I’ve dated (“seriously”) girls from a dozen religions (and every single world religion) and I am happily married to an Orthodox Christian not because of her religion, which I don’t agree with at all, but because she was THE one; if you lack similar mixing experience then stop it with the bigoted pronouncements, because you really won’t know until you’ve tried it extensively. Up until then, all you’ll have is your preconceptions, misconcepotions, and prejudices. And if you bring them with you into a partnership/marriage, then it’s no surprise things don’t work out.
Most people marry people of a different gender than themselves. This is a difference far more profound than mere religion. No unmarried man ever gets up in the middle of the night to trim his toenails.
Indeed, the constant talk about similarity, similarity, similarity, just doesn’t sound right. Growth takes place thanks to stimulus, new ideas, learning, etc. If you’re looking for an ideological clone, as Diogenes the Cynic put it, you could actually be afraid of change, development, and exploration.
And how far can you discuss a topic if both of you agree completely on all the major points? Heck, I am prepared to bet that simply having a partner who is not of your faith will increase your understanding of your own religion, because the proximity to a different religious element will (hopefully–I have my doubt for some cases here) encourage introspection, analysis, exposition, maybe discussion, research, and so forth.
As per your question, I’m the wrong side of the relationship to answer, but here it goes anyway.
I’m athiest, she’s christian.
The only time we have any religious issues is around Christmas (which I can’t stand)
Outside of that, religion is a moot point between us. We both agree to disagree.
I’ll preface my thoughts with a song exerpt (not whole, per board regs) from Depeche Mode’s “Somebody”, then a speculation.
Wouldn’t it in some ways be better to disagree, so as to spark personal development? I bet Carville and Mary Matalin do one of two things, either A) ignore politics altogether and find other things to share, or B) occasionally discuss issues and expand their minds by adapting to and either accepting or countering new ideas. For point A, people don’t have to share every part of their lives when they marry. They should show interest, and respect the impact such things have on their partner, but they don’t have to share interest in all those things. For point B, isn’t the exploration of ideas something that life partners could share together? If you agree about everything important, where’s the fun?
Since I don’t want any children, I would have no problem marrying a Christian because the issue of how to raise kids would never come up. I would echo the sentiments of those who think the problem may begin at that point. I know that in large part, my own departure from Christianity was made possible when my parents stopped taking us to Church when I was 11. I’m not sure I would have had any opportunity to explore the issues of the world were I still fettered by the chains of a religious worldview. Still, I think people eventually have that chance in their lives, to expand their horizons, so long as at some point they leave the confines of home and head out to a nice public college somewhere. So perhaps it isn’t such an issue after all.
My partner and I are Atheists. I couldn’t see having it any other way.
Without going into a lot of details, I’ll just say that religion has been a major part of my life. (Or, perhaps, my reaction to it has been.) It’s something that I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about from the time I was a child. It’s a subject that just fascinates me, for one reason or another.
At one point I may have fallen in line with some of you who have said that it would be better for “personal development” or enlightenment about other religions if you married outside your own. Now, though, I’m quite sure that for me it would be like introducing weeds into the garden. I’ve already learned a lot about other people’s views and quite frankly - right or wrong - I think it’s all b.s. Just as frankly - right or wrong - on some level I have a definite lack of respect for people who believe in spirituality, mysticism, God, etc, etc. (There are people in my life that I do respect and even cherish who are religious; I’m just saying that on some level I think they’re at best a bit silly.) To me it all comes down to that - why would I want to spend the rest of my life with someone who I don’t have the utmost respect for? As a friend it can be tolerable, but as a “soulmate?” No way. Not for me.
Of course, issues much smaller than religion crush potential mates for me quite easily. I’m very picky about people.
I first met my current SO a little over ten years ago. All of the other tables were taken, so she asked if she could sit with me. I told her she’d have to take off her crucifix first. She refused and sat down anyway. (I still can’t get her to do anything I say :)) Luckily, the cross was just a decoration and here we are a decade later.
So for those of you who’ve made it clear that you and your partner must have similar (the same?) religious beliefs, if one of you walked away from religion permanently, would you seek a separation/divorce/annulment irrespective of the feelings between you outside of religion?
Religious inquiry is not your forte, since it’s all nonsense to you. Neither is the exchange of ideas, I wager, since you dismiss them as all b.s. and liken them to weeds spoiling a garden.
See, the basic sentiment here I can understand. You wonder how anyone could believe something that is manifestly untrue all life long. You think it’s a bit silly, but you are so obsessed about it that you let it undermine the development of the strong feelings required to form a long term bond. Could you explain where you get the automatic assumption that your way is the only correct way, and the only way worthy of your respect?
If you were religious you’d be busted outright in the humility department. However I have to note that your atheism probably shares many of the characteristics of religion. First and foremost, your opinion (that God does not exist) becomes a belief that dictates the course of your life (for example, causing you difficulties in respecting religious people–people with a different opinion, and we’re not talking just religious nuts here). Yet you couldn’t prove that God doesn’t exist–which means you’d be attributing certitude to your belief through the same mechanism that constitutes faith in god/s.
Sounds like it!
I think I have to thank you for demonstrating that bigotry in religious matters works both ways. Telling a woman you don’t know to take off her crucifix before she can sit down at a table you don’t even own–sorry, but that is a rather illustrative story. And it doesn’t suggest you are less bigoted than your average intolerant religious person.
Same problem, different flavour.
It doesn’t seem an issue of religion per se, but of certain characteristics of individuals who have strong beliefs (although the similarity of atheism to religion are noted). Perhaps the projection of self on one’s sphere of influence? Self-affirmative action, an establishment of egocentric hierarchical levels arbitrarily based on one’s opinions? An attempt to internalize loci of control? Insecurity wherein disagreement or otherness in general are perceived as threatening? I’m not saying such are necessarily applicable, but they do spring to mind when reading some of the posts in this thread.
Automatic? Hardly. As I said, I have spent much of my life on this topic. It’s not an assumption. It is a conclusion.
As to where it comes from, that’s not the topic at hand.
A tired, beaten-down argument. I’m surprised people still bring it up.
Hmmm. Did I claim not to be bigoted? I don’t recall doing that. I have friends and such that are religious, as I pointed out, but I wouldn’t want to marry a religious person. In that regard, sure I’m bigoted. That was the whole point of my post, eh? In a way, it seems the point of the entire thread - can you accept a person with religious differences enough to marry one? My answer is “no.”
Beaten Man said, “World wide Catholics account for 3/4 of all Christians. Protestants account for 1/4 of all Christians. You are out numbered 3 to 1. Read some history it will do you good.”
I’ll let your snotty attitude slide before I correct YOU. All Catholics are christian, but not all christians are catholic. I’m not outnumbered at all. Far more people on this planet don’t believe in any flavor of christianity. So there.
Gee, Abe, would it be okay for a Klansman to marry a black person?
You make it sound like you should never have any agreemtns with your mate at all.
!
Andy: No, divorce would be wrong, if the spouse left “religion”.
I doubt that a Klansman and a black person would be very tolerant/understanding of each other’s beliefs.
You see, in my (former) case, the person in question believed that my “religion” was wrong and his was right.
How to resolve that?
Especially with a child involved?
Boy! This thread is taking off better than I anticipated! I’m agnostic and was raised that way, with encouragement to explore religion as I became curious. I have been involved with mostly non-practicing people who believe that there must be “something” out there. My husband is a little more tolerant of organized religion than I am. By that, I mean that I have no room in my life for a religion that discriminates against “some” people (and I think we know who we’re talking about). He looks at it more like, it’s their private club and they can call the rules any way they want to.
My ex-boss is a Jew who married a Catholic. They raise their kids in both religions (although I have no idea how the kids (both under 10) categorize themselves). They attend a multi-faith church and are totally fine with it. I think they not only have a strong marriage, but they both maintain strong faith.
A lot of the posts in this thread say that they couldn’t mix marriage and differing faith. I tend to agree with those who say that it is a narrow approach to personal relationships. On the other hand, I’ve never dated anyone who was hard-core religious, so I don’t know first-hand what the challenges would be. I do know that fundamentalists are generally too judgemental for me to be able to develop a close relationship with in the first place.
There’s not much point in being in a relationship with somebody who is completely intolerant of your beliefs. If there is a difference in religious beliefs, then both partners have to be tolerant/accepting/understanding – it doesn’t cut it for only one of them to be open-minded.
I was in a relationship with somebody who kept telling me that I was going to Hell for not believing in Allah. I didn’t have a problem with her believing in Allah, but I had a big problem with her acting like a bigoted arse. Needless to say, the relationship didn’t last very long.
Heck, look at your example of a Klansman and a black person – nobody honestly expects the black person to be tolerant of the Klansman’s hatred of them.
I knew a couple one was Muslim one was Hindu. They have been married for over 25 years without a hitch.
I agree tolerence of other beliefs is necessary. I’m wondering if those who would not marry outside of their faith, have a small number of friends (Not just aquaintences) who are from outside their church.
Abe:
I beg to differ. You cannot over-emphasize the importance of beliefs in such matters as the ultimate destination of the soul, the source of supreme moral authority or the purpose of human life on Earth. These are fundamentals for direction in life, and two people who are not trying to go in the same direction cannot be mutually satisfied by the same ride. And isn’t mutual satisfaction what a partnership should be about?
Your view of religious beliefs as something superficial in the manner of skin color or language accent is wrong. It is not “intolerance based on perceived differences” to not marry someone who does not share your beliefs. They are very real differences that form the basis of decisions one or the other partner will make in everyday life, both minor and major.
Chaim Mattis Keller
Not to pick, but the difference between two people with different beliefs is far different between a Klansmen and a black. While you can certainly have black and white relationships (I’ve known many, including my aunt) dispite religious beliefs, the Klansmen may actually share beliefs with the black person in question but not want to be with him/her simply because of skin color.
They may share the same God, but the fool would simply see the black as inferior. That is not a relationship based on religion, but one affected by racial bigotry.
Being an atheist, I don’t mind if my other half have religious beliefs, as long as she is tolerant of the differences. It seems that than fundies are out.
Hi loin