Relationships and Religious Differences...

In My Humble Opinion
1

I met a really great girl the other day. She’s a sweet, good-natured person, and she’s beautiful on the inside and out. I’ve only known her for a few days, but I’ve already met her parents, her grandparents, her little brother and sister, her cat, and her pet fish. I’ve been talking to her on the phone every night, and I’ve even gone to church with her.

I think we have a real connection – the kind of connection I haven’t felt since I met my high school sweetheart – and that was more than ten years ago. Not to dig up a tired old fishing metaphor, but I think this girl is quite a catch, and she might even be a keeper.

I’m going to see her again this Saturday, and I can’t wait.

There’s one thing that I’m worried about though. Religion.

First off, let me tell you a little about my background. I’m a Roman Catholic, but my parents never really practiced, and I was basically raised without religion. That’s not to say I wasn’t raised without morals – I think my parents did a good job bringing me up to be a good, tolerant, kind, and understanding person. I try to follow the Golden Rule and treat others as I would have them treat me. You could probably go over my past with a fine-tooth comb and you wouldn’t find much to raise a fuss about – probably the worst thing I’ve ever done is make free copies of my CD collection for my friends.

I’m your garden variety agnostic/secular humanist, which means I have no idea if there’s a god or not. I’d love to believe there’s a higher power behind the creation of the universe, but I don’t think I could ever be certain about something like that. I think it’s important to be a good human being, not for hope of reward or fear of punishment in the afterlife, but because life is so precious and short, and every person deserves to be treated well and have a chance to live a happy, fulfilling life.

I’ve been through college, and I’ve always been fascinated by subjects of theology, philosophy, psychology, and sociology. I’ve studied Greek Mythology, Roman History, the Old Testament, the New Testament, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Native American religions, and just about every major world religion you can think of. I’ve read works of Confucius, Sung Tzu, Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Da Vinci, Machiavelli, Descartes, Kant, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Freud, Miller, and Marx, not to mention Charles Darwin, Richard Feynman, Carl Sagan, Isaac Asimov, and Stephen Jay Gould. I’ve studied Utilitarianism, Existentialism, Nihilism, Socialism, Objectivism, Classical liberalism, and modern conservative, liberal, and libertarian modes of thought.

And what’s the result of all this scholarship?

I’ve come to the steadfast conclusion that the human race still knows very little about many of life’s most important questions.

I think there’s a beautiful mystery surrounding life and our place in the universe. I think there are vexing questions that might never be answered, given the limitations of the human mind, the relatively narrow scope of the scientific method, and the innate fallibility of the human heart. I’m comfortable with this idea, because I don’t really need answers – I’m content to live a good life and be happy – and perhaps when I die, I’ll get to see what life is really about. But if not, I suppose it’s not such a bad thing.

I think many people are not content with such ambiguity, which is a perfectly natural aspect of the human psyche – we were born with curious minds, and I don’t think it’s right to suppress our desire for understanding. But unfortunately it means that anybody who claims to have answers to all the difficult questions is naturally going to develop a following, especially if those answers are emotionally fulfilling. That’s my theory of why there are so many religious in the world, and why 90% of the human population believes in some kind of higher power.

Anyway, let me cut to the chase. This girl and her entire family are devout Christians of the Baptist variety. They go to church every Sunday, they go to bible class, the hold hands and say grace at the dinner table, and they pray to god every night before bed. I’m pretty sure they consider themselves “saved” because they have accepted Jesus Christ as the son of god, their one and only savior, and their path to everlasting life in the Kingdom of God.

Needless to say, this is all a bit foreign to me.

Don’t get me wrong – I have nothing against the Christian faith, and the last thing I’d ever want to do is take something so important away from such a special girl. I’d go to church with her every week if it would make her happy. In fact, I enjoy church, and I tend to agree with about 85% of the sermon anyway, because I believe that the Christian bible (along with many other great books), contains a lot of wonderful lessons on how to conduct a virtuous and fulfilling life.

But I’m worried that she might have a problem with my lack of faith, and I’m worried that she might have her sights set on “saving” me somewhere down the road; and the fact is, I can never be saved, because I believe that, if there is a God, and if human beings can establish a personal relationship with Him, there is no single “correct” path to salvation. Jesus Christ is just one of many channels.

Above all else, I believe that a person’s actions, not their particular set of beliefs, is what ultimately determines whether or not they are a good person, and if their is a day of judgement, I hope that I won’t be faulted for trying to keep an open mind and being honest about my doubts.

I’m also worried that since she comes from such a drastically different upbringing than mine, she might not understand my point of view, and she might not respect my beliefs in the same way that I respect hers.

I suppose I could pretend to be “saved” for her sake, but I value honesty too much, and I don’t think I could live with myself if the words from my mouth don’t match the convictions in my heart.

I’m not exactly sure what kind of advice I’m asking for. I know I need to discuss all of this with her – soon – even if it means losing her. Because if I try to avoid the subject, it could end up causing a lot of heartbreak down the road.

So I suppose what I want to know is this: Has anybody out there had successful relationships with people of different faiths? If so, can you offer any words of advice? Caution? Assurance? Am I foolish for even pursuing this girl?

Thanks.

2

Well, I’m a secular humanist married to a liberal Catholic. When we got married I was asked to agree to giving the kids a Catholic religious education, which I didn’t have a problem with. They can choose on their own when they get older, just as I did. (I was raised as a Presbyterian and my father was a minister.) We’re all getting along just fine. I have to bring party favors to CCD next week to celebrate the new pope, but I’ll live.

The main problem for you is going to be the evangelical nature of her particular brand of Christianity. It’s not enough for them to be saved. They have to try to get you, too. I haven’t had to deal with this, much. Catholics are surprising laissez-faire about recruitment, at least on an individual level. How cheerful you can all remain in the face of this will depend on your particular personalities. I would definitely be up front with her though. I don’t tell everyone I’m an atheist, but I wouldn’t keep it from my SO.

3

I had an affair with a woman of a different religion. I was honest and told her that I had no religious beliefs and that she shouldn’t expect me to convert to her faith or expect me to pray and perform rituals. Neither would I ask her to subscribe to my views.
IMO it all depends on how much the two love each other. If the love is strong enough on both sides, there will be no need for dishonesty and put on acts. If the girl loves you enough, I expect her to keep the two subjects of love and religion apart, because they really have nothing to do with each other. If she is mature and intelligent, she should be able to realize this fact and accept it without problems.

4

I don’t think you’re being foolish, but I think it’s important that, since you want a future with her, that something fundamental like this be discussed before it causes any heartbreak or hurt feelings. There’s not much you can do if she is intent on “saving” you, and I don’t think you should pretend to be saved at any point down the road–you’d be lying to yourself and to her.

As for me, my SO and I share similar beliefs, so it hasn’t been an issue. I brought the issue of religion up during one of our talks one time, and we talked about our individual beliefs, and got them out in the open. (We’re both of the same line of thinking as you, by the way.) So it’s been relatively easy.

Good luck!

5

How can two walk together, unless they’re agreed?

No matter how nice a guy you are, if she’s as Baptist as you say, this probably isn’t gonna work. It’s not you, it’s not her … it’s just a compatibility issue.

Now it might be that her family is all about being Baptist, and it really doesn’t mean all that much to her … in that case, it could work. If she’s serious about Christianity, though, and takes the part of not marrying unbelievers literally, you’re off-limits. There is absolutely no point in dating someone that you could not marry, if you’re dating with marriage in mind.

What I’m saying is that I think interfaith relationships work best when neither, or one party, isn’t all that into whatever religion they subscribe to.

The sooner you talk this over, the better. If you’re going to break up, best to do it now before too much gets invested. She shouldn’t be missionary dating, and you definitely shouldn’t pretend to convert to make her happy.

6

Has she asked you if you’ve accepted Jesus? Has she said anything in conversation about her faith at all? Has she implied that any of the things you believe are sinful or evil?

Has she invited you to join her at evening Bible study?

If not, you’re worrying ahead of schedule.

I disagree with “the sooner the better” when you’ve only known her “a few days.” At this stage, the way she eats spaghetti could be enough to destroy your feelings about her.

After a period, when you start talking about books, movies, mutual interests and The Meaning Of Life you can move into religion.

As for advice:

A) It’s possible for two people to love each other without being in complete agreement on everything.

B) It’s also possible to disagree without disrespect.

7

We’ve actually talked a lot in the last couple of days – I’d guess we’ve logged in a total of about 8-10 hours of conversation since we met, and she hasn’t mentioned religion more than once or twice, and very casually at that.

We did go to a bible study class before service (I think I did quite well, actually), but the closest thing to a theological conversation we had that day was when she asked if I enjoyed attending church with her, to which I answered (truthfully) yes.

She already knows that I’m a baptized Catholic who rarely attends church, and she doesn’t seem to have a problem with that, but of course I can’t read her mind.

We’re both laid-back, agreeable people, and I get the feeling that she simply accepts her faith as a normal part of her upbringing, rather than something she must impose on other people.

I will find out soon enough, as I have an uncanny inability to keep secrets from her. She already knows about this thread, and I’m probably going to read some of it to her tonight over the phone.

Anyway, thanks for the great responses. Keep 'em coming.

8

I’m an atheist and I wouldn’t have married a religious person. I dated quite a few, but I just couldn’t see marrying one. I have a lot of respect for people for whom religion is an important thing, especially those who “walk the walk”. For me, though, it was just one conflict I didn’t want to deal with in a marriage. I wouldn’t want to have to send my kids to church when it’s not something I believe in. I wouldn’t think it would be fair to a religious spouse for me to not fully partake in something that’s that important to them. Religion isn’t just a hobby - it’s a major facet of people’s lives.

When I was dating, religiosity was in the same category as kids from a previous marriage or career aspirations that didn’t fit with my own plans. I wouldn’t have married a devout person any more than I’d have married someone who wanted to be a foreign war correspondent. I ended up falling in love with someone who has many opinions and hobbies that are different from mine, but we share the big core values (and he’s an atheist, too, so there’s no problem on Sunday mornings - we make a big bunch of scones and snuggle in bed with the crossword).

9

First of all, compliments on a very well written OP.

Now:
“I’m your garden variety agnostic/secular humanist, which means I have no idea if there’s a god or not.”

That describes me very well.

This describes the Missus very well: “This girl and her entire family are devout Christians of the Baptist variety.”

We’ll celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary this summer and we’ve never had a cross word about religion. It can be done.

I’ve never scoffed at her beliefs, and she’s never tried to convert me. On a few occasions a year, when for some reason or other it’s important to her, she requests that I accompany her to church and I do, without complaint, pouting or other mis-deed.

When it’s not important to her that I accompany her to church, she doesn’t request that I do so. If she’s going to church, she usually asks out of courtesy if I’d like to come, but if she’s merely asking and not requesting, I always decline with thanks.

The way I’ve written it sounds complicated or sort of stiff and formal but it’s really a simple and relaxed relationship. At this moment, I’m posting on the SDMB and she’s sitting ten feet away reading her bible. We’re both content.
Respect and love each other enough, and the religious differences can be managed almost without effort.

Good luck to you both.

10

We’re both laid-back, agreeable people, and I get the feeling that she simply accepts her faith as a normal part of her upbringing, rather than something she must impose on other people.

There’s imposing one’s faith on other people, and then there’s merely requiring that one’s SO/spouse be of the same faith (or not).

Like our friend C3. Not into God. “Imposing” her faith (or lack of) would have been marrying a Christian guy and pulling the “I don’t want our kids to go to church” thing, or something similar.

Choosing not to bother with religious guys isn’t imposing anything … it’s just setting a standard.

Ok, cool – it works for you two.

However I’m wondering why she married you considering the book she reads tonight says “no” to Christians marrying non-Christians.

Please, please don’t read that as snarky … I can’t word it any other way and get what I’m saying across.

I mean, it’s one thing when someone gets married, and then finds Jesus (or whoever) later on. And yes, I’ve seen Christians marry unbelievers and their spouse did have a true conversion later on – and then there’s couples like you two, who live happily ever after regardless.

I’m just puzzled, that’s all. Did she get more devout as the years went by, or what? If she was devout from the beginning, how did she reconcile marrying you with scripture?

I’d ask friends instead, but they all either both became Christians after they married, or were both Christians beforehand.

11

I’m sure Saul thought the same thing when he was killing Christians.

I’m sure Josh McDowell thought the same thing when he determined to prove the Bible wrong and became Christianity’s most popular apologeticist.
You know I’m just ribbing you, but be wary of what you say you won’t do.

12

I just asked why she married me and she said she married me because I’m pretty and I make her laugh. (Guess there’s no accounting for some people’s taste) I don’t know how she reconciles that with a conflict in the scriptures.

We’ve both got the same religious ideas now as when we first met. Those Baptists don’t hold with drinking and dancing, you know. Yet I’ve taught her to dance(she’s quite good) and she’ll have a margarita or two on occasion when we go out. She doesn’t seem conflicted by these things. Doesn’t the bible have something in it about “The man shall lead” or something? Maybe that’s it.

I’m really not inclined to pick at her about religious details, that would be entirely out of character for me, so I can’t give you a complete answer. She’s got it worked out, just like I’ve got it worked out is the best I can tell you.

13

seems to me that differing religions would only be a problem if one partner felt the need to proselytize and/or convert the other, or there were vastly different moral principles involved. I’m about as atheist as atheist gets; I find all religion fantastically silly, and my girlfriend’s a Wiccan. the only time it’s ever come up is when she asked if it’d be ok to include some Wiccan stuff in our ceremony when we get married, which I have no problem with as long as it doesn’t misrepresent my beliefs (or lack thereof). if you and she have very similar or the same basic morals, I can only ever see it being a source of conflict if she felt it was a personal affront to her if you didn’t participate in something involving her religion.

14

Well, I read her my entire OP over the phone, and after about 30 seconds of silence she said: “So, what’s the problem?”

So that settles it. Actually she was quite flattered that I was honest about my concern, and she was happy that I took the time to discuss it with her upfront (instead of putting it off until later and making a potential mountain out of a molehill).

So we came to the amicable agreement that I won’t try to change her beliefs as long as she doesn’t try to change mine. She even offered to come to Catholic Mass with me, should the occasion ever present itself.

By the way, John Carter of Mars: I read her your response as an example of a best-case scenario, and her response was: “I think I could manage that.”

I told you this girl was special. I think I’d be crazy to let her slip away…

15

Actually, what the Bible says about this situation is:

While the “I, not the Lord” parenthetical refers to Paul, the author, the message is consistant with the teaching of Christ.

16

I would support nevermore in terms of the prosletyze/conversion thing and add in a little bit about how you feel about the manner in which your children are raised. My bf is the product of a RCC/Hindu marriage and was raised mostly Catholic with flavourings of Hinduism. In the thirty years his parents have been married there hasn’t been any talk of converting the heathen, nor would he expect me to convert if we were to get married. He goes to Church most Sundays and on the off days accompanies the Hindu parent to temple. Everyone on the Christian side of the family is married to Hindus with no problem (the children run a gamut from Mostly Christian to Mostly Hindu). Despite being Catholic, no one on the Christian side of the family even believes in converting the “non-believers.” We’ve talked it over and if it were to go down the marriage road our children would be raised in both religions, although I am realistic enough to know that with Christianity being preached in English and both of us being bad in our respective Indian languages, let alone Sanskrit, they would probably end up Mostly Catholic with Flavourings of Hinduism. And we couldn’t have an RCC wedding anyway seeing as he wasn’t even confirmed (too lazy to attend the classes) and I wouldn’t promise to raise my future kids exclusively Catholic.

Anyway, the fact that we are both lazily faithful and neither of us is keen on prosletyzation makes it work. I wouldn’t be able to be with someone from a different religion, otherwise.

17

The verses you quoted are discussing what happens when a conversion takes place AFTER the marriage.

“Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?” (2 Cor. 6:14-15)

“A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord.” (1 Cor. 7:39)

This appears to be telling people who are already Christians not to marry an unbeliever. (The second verse is telling widows they can remarry as long as the guy is a Christian.) There are, of course, concessions for when this doesn’t happen (maybe a Christian marries thinking their spouse is a believer and then finds out they aren’t, etc.) … but why should anyone who is already a Christian deliberately disregard this passage?

The Israelites weren’t allowed to marry outside the tribe, and all they were doing was keeping the law – external stuff. I don’t see why God would change the rules for Christians, who have the Holy Spirit living inside them. There’s just an inherent internal difference that makes marrying a non-Christian a really bad idea. No matter how good of a person they are, you’ve still got different spirits, different mindsets, and different gods being served. It’s like the verse says, light and darkness can’t mix.

18

Why are Christians considered light and everyone else is dark? Does that mean that everyone who isn’t Christian is evil somehow?

For what it’s worth, my family is more or less built on the foundation that interfaith marriage is ok. All women but one in my family from my grandmother to my mom, my sister and me, have married men outside our faith. My mom was the only one to divorce and it had absolutely nothing to do with religion. The same same is true for most members of my husband’s family.

June, unless this girl makes you uncomfortable with her faith by evangelizing, I’d say go for it. Interfaith relationships can be very satisfying, and I personally feel I’ve learned even more about the faiths in which I was brought up (most of my family is Jewish or Christian) after marrying my husband than I ever did in confirmation class. Of course, I now consider myself agnostic and am more interested in Christianity and Judaism from a more intellectual point of view. Most of my husband’s family is Hindu or Bhuddist, and I’ve learned a lot about that, too. One of the things I love most about my relationship with my husband is that we have such different backgrounds.

19

An atheist for at least 40 years (following a brief membership of the Church of England), I’ve been happily married for 28 of those years to a reasonably devouit Catholic. That means I go to mass more often than most atheists (about 2 or 3 times a year), but no one at church tries to persuade me to join them.

20

The real issue here isn’t the difference between our good doper June wtih his Is There God and What’s It All About? and his Catch o’ A Life Time * Yay God RAH RAH RAH.*

The real issue is: Is she loaded with money.

A man has to think of his golden years after his looks are gone.

:slight_smile: