Would I be correct to think that it is impossible, in contemporary society, for someone to be entirely non-sexist? Are we all cursed with cognitive gender biases?
I guess it depends on what you mean by non-sexist. The day will ever come, absent genetic engineering, where men will see women as de-sexualized, non-gendered human archetypes. But does that preclude being a non-sexist?
Interesting that you assume the OP is asking whether men will ever stop being sexist towards women, and not any other gender combination.
I think it’s possible for people to generally not be sexist (no human behaviour is going to be 100%), assuming we exclude obvious generalisations about the populations as a whole. e.g. women are, as a generalisation, less muscular than men.
On a slight rant, many feminism books I’ve come across seem to take a rather extreme line and read sexist motives or even a male conspiracy into just about everything. I’m not sure anything anybody does could be non-sexist from these writers’ perspectives…
I didn’t assume anything about the OP. And I used that example because it’s women who are trying to play catch up with men on the equality scale, not the other way around. Similarly, in a thread on racism in America most people usually talk about racism against blacks or hispanics from whites, not the other way around. But if it pleases you, I doubt women will ever stop seeing men as status conferring protectors. I almost wanted to put in provider as well, but I think it’s too early to say that yet. As more and more urban single women earn more than their male peers we could see some interesting cultural changes. And men are getting destroyed in colleges, so I figure the trend will continue.
I love reading radical feminist blogs and their comments section. Even if I don’t agree sometimes at least the different POV is always interesting. And yeah, I think a lot of these issues they complain about on a day to day basis stem from what I said earlier – men see women as sex objects. No amount of consciousness raising is going to change that. They’re right when they say prostitution, strip clubs, and pornography are extremely sexist. But good luck convincing men to give them up in a free society.
I believe it’s possible to not act on any sexist impulses or preconceptions, but I think most people feel and experience them.
There are other combinations than simply the inverse.
For example, women who do not want to have children often say that it is other women that will consider this freakish or wrong.
(this is just an anecdotal observation, I don’t have a cite)
There are clubs where women can go watch men strip too. I don’t see that as sexist: the fact that men can be sex objects does not imply that that is all they are.
People will never stop being tribal - the most virulent anti-sexists demonstrate quite well that tribalism never dies, it simply rearranges. Sexism, a specific form of tribalism, may die, but only when people have some other, more compelling Us vs. Them narrative to motivate them. That is not necessarily a good thing.
[Nigel Tufnel] What’s wrong with being sexy? [/Nigel Tufnel]
Did the OP have a particular definition of “sexist” in mind? Because I’m pretty sure the answer depends on what one means by “sexist.”
Everyone’s a little bit sexist.
Some more so than others. But, in the sense that everyone (everyone?) interprets actions and people through gendered archetypes, yeah, everyone’s sexist.
I don’t think it needs to be that way, though, against marshmallow. I’m also skeptical of the idea that for people to be de-gendered that they also need to be de-sexualized.
my 2 cents are pretty obvious stuff:
Men and women are different. Period. Difference in hormone levels=difference in behavior,thoughts,perspective,feelings etc etc. And this is before you add culture/nurturing.
There will of course be differences between individuals, a fruity guy could act more feminine than a rowdy tomboy. We are different, hence we will always divide and have different attitude depending on what gender we are encountering.
So the answer to your question is NO, we will always be sexist, and it is a rational thing. To pretend that we are all the same is just to turn a blind eye to reality. If you chose to spin the word sexist in a positive or a negative way is up to the individual. I think the word sexist should be a neutral word, even though it isn’t. -ism words often have a bad connotation.
I am entirely non-sexist. Non-racist too. I do not subscribe to the meme that everybody has some degree of racist/sexist/homophic bias. I don’t. My wife doesn’t. My kids don’t.
Is you wife okay that you are speaking for her on the issue
Yes, my wife is perfectly comfortable with me saying she’s not a bigot.
That is very sexist question.
Seriously, there are different sexes. At least two anyway. So sexism could be defined as simply as the recognition of that reality, or in the sense of sex based chauvinism. The answer, as marshmallow suggested, will depend on your definition of sexist.
You came down on the opposite side of where I thought your post was leading.
Sexism, like many -isms, is about applying generalisations to all individuals. So, it is not generally considered sexist to say that girls (generally) have better verbal skills or that men are (generally) taller, or whatever.
Believing that there are possible generalisations doesn’t make you a sexist.
What’s sexist is applying a generalisation to the whole set “She’s a woman, therefore her spatial perception won’t be as good as mine…”
Being sexist is unfair and immoral, like most prejudices.
Whether sexism is rational however is an interesting thought.
It’s easy to think of hypothetical situations where being privately discriminatory could be beneficial. But still, a blanket bias is still more error prone than thinking in terms of probabilities.
As others have said, it depends on what you mean by sexism. There are probably three main things that have been brought up:
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Biological sex* differences. These range from near universal (males have external gonads, females have internal gonads) to distributive (males have more muscle mass and are taller on average). In and of themselves these differences really have no moral component and there is really no way to get read of these differences.
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Gender* biases. These range from relatively innocuous (hair styles and fashion choices) to insidious (women can’t do math, and will be happier in more people related fields).
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Old school sexism. This comes in the open hostility and hatred form, and the more tradition protect them from the cruel world form.
2 is pretty endemic, but not in a static way. As time goes by it changes. I recently saw a video about the joke told in the movie Tin Cup (father and son in car accident, father dies, son in operating room surgeon says “I cannot operate on him, he is my son”). Younger people seem to be much more likely to get the right answer because they no longer assume a surgeon must be a man. I think this will linger for quite a while, but become less of a problem as time goes by.
3 is going away and I expect it to be gone within a few generations in the Western world. It is still going strong in other parts of the world and I don’t think we will be rid of it until poverty and strife become more of an exception than a norm worldwide.
*Sex here means biology (male/female) while gender refers to the social structure (man/woman).
I don’t think it is possible for people to be gender blind in most meaningful ways but for the result to still play out well for the totality of the mindset. I am a male raised by a single mother, have two daughters which would have been my first pick and lots of female friends. However, I can’t stand old-school feminists or even most new ones.
Rest assured, my daughters, my mother, and my late grandmother are the most important people to me and I would do anything for them but that doesn’t translate well into modern feminist thinking. I really and truly believe that females are the more cruel and aggressive sex when it comes to interpersonal relationships even among each other now that physical violence is mostly out of the equation for most of society.
When I think of females, they aren’t one group even for the same person. It is like the theory of relativity where the observation depends on the observer. Mothers always have a special place especially over their sons. Men like me love daughters to spoil and make sure they get the best things possible and grandmothers are usually a dream.
However, it is very different in other circumstances. I will never willingly have another female boss again and that includes a wife. They are simply too aggressive and irrational. Feminist thinking has turned lots of women into an expendable commodity item. Those chicks from Sex In the City aren’t getting any younger you know and I don’t think Ally McBeal is doing much better. They can make it on their own now and can should be treated as such when it comes to romantic relationships. You can’t take things from one group without an equal and opposite force.
I subscribe to some feminist websites just to get an insight and the things I read make me uncomfortable even as an outsider. Debates about consensual porn versus victimization and childbearing choices get out of control. I am glad I am a male so that I don’t have a governing body over me all the time with lots of infighting.
All I know is that I have a very successful Republican Mother and two daughters that I adore and they can do whatever they want as far as I am concerned. That is the real goal isn’t it?
“Look…woman can probably do things as well as or better than men. But we’ll never really know as long as they are swinging at bigger balls. Driving from closer tees. Ding pushups from their knees. Taking half the Beatles money!! BITCHES PLEASE!!!”
-Daniel Tosh, Tosh.0
Diogenes,
Are you seriously trying to say that there is not one ounce of racial/sexual profiling in yourself or your family? Are you trying to suggest that you don’t treat those of other races differently or that you are not swayed in any way by the sex of the individual at hand?
The experiences I have lived color my view of the world. Unless I run into someone EXACTLY the same as I am, I treat everyone differently. In order to be completely clear of all racial/sexual bias, I would have to see no difference and that I have not been able to do.
I am thrilled that I refrain from prejudging any other individual, but I am not so naive as to think I am perfectly clear of bias. I know it is there, but I try not to act based on it.
Additionally, if I ever get to the day that I DO NOT see a woman differently than a man, then that will be a sad day. I was made to see women differently.
Since I don’t believe in binary gender, and haven’t for some time, I believe that I have managed to become non-sexist. It’s difficult to ascribe any stereotypical notions to a category of people when you don’t categorize people. 