Is it right to make judgments about people based on their appearance?

[bri1600bv]

@Mosier

I had a conversation with a friend who was horrified at the idea I would treat someone differently based on their appearance. The examples we used were “appears homeless” and “looks like a thug”.

My friend and I both agreed there is such a thing as someone who looks homeless, and someone who looks like a thug, so let’s not argue about defining those terms. Honestly, the discussion isn’t even about that, but whether making judgments about people based on their appearance is morally wrong in the abstract sense.

The argument was mostly about the police. He argued that police officers run the risk of developing racist tendencies because of their largely negative experiences with minorities. He argued that cops should never consider someone’s appearance when deciding whether a situation is suspicious or not. I argued that someone’s appearance can be useful information when deciding whether a situation is suspicious. My friend stopped short of calling me a racist, but the conversation ended abruptly and he made it very clear he was deeply disturbed by what I told him.

In response to that discussion, I decided to make this poll. Maybe he’s right and I am a monster and just don’t realize it. It’s up to you guys to convince me.

It’s somewhat unavoidable to make snap judgements but one should always try to treat people fairly.

Your friend sounds like a lot of fun.

[Bosstone]

I don’t see that it’s wrong to allow appearance to shape your first impression, as long as you don’t let it be your only impression. You see a kid wearing thug clothes, you’re a fool if you keep treating him like a thug even after you’re told he’s the class valedictorian.

[Apollyon]

@Bosstone

You see a kid wearing thug clothes, you’re a fool if you keep treating him like a thug even after you’re told he’s the class valedictorian.

Yes, and conversely, if thugs are more likely to be dangerous, and the kid is wearing thug clothes, then you’d be foolishly naive if you didn’t make the starting assumption that there may be potential of danger.

[Beware_of_Doug]

@Lakai

To simplify the issue even further:

Clothing is a choice. Race isn’t. That is why judgment based on clothing isn’t racist.

Whether it is right, wrong, rational, or irrational, are different questions. Assuming someone is homeless because he is wearing sweat pants isn’t too smart. Assuming someone is homeless because he is wearing a garabage bag is a little more accurate.

I’ll admit I tend to avoid people who are disheveled or dirty in ways you don’t get from physical work. My experience is that often enough, they’re mentally unstable and may start ranting or even harassing strangers.

There are, of course, exceptions. I’ve known some highly intelligent dirtbags, although to a man (and they’re almost all men), they have a piece missing socially.

[dangermom]

@Apollyon

Yes, and conversely, if thugs are more likely to be dangerous, and the kid is wearing thug clothes, then you’d be foolishly naive if you didn’t make the starting assumption that there may be potential of danger.

Or, at least, that the kid wants to be perceived as dangerous. Or even that he feels he has to dress like a thug in order to fit in. However, then he may feel that he also needs to act like a thug in order to fit in…

[Unintentionally_Blank]

@TruCelt

Dad said “No, that’s Bob Seger, he owns the house with the seven garages.”

Apocryphal stories aside (and there’s always one or two), how many of those do you see, really?

[Mojo_Pin]

@TruCelt

Many years ago, my Dad and I were driving through his very high-dollar lake front neighborhood in Michigan. This group of houses was pretty out-of-the way, no retail or services anywhere near by.

We saw what looked like a homeless man wandering through one of the yards, and I commented on how he must be lost.

Dad said “No, that’s Bob Seger, he owns the house with the seven garages.”

Is it wrong? I third (or fourth?) DangerMom’s post. But it’s also important to remember that it’s more likely to lead you to an incorrect conclusion.

Is it really so incorrect? You were wrong that he was homeless and lost, but isn’t the conclusion that Bob Seger dresses and acts like a homeless man true? I’d say that tells you more about a person than how many garages he has.

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

@Mosier

The argument was mostly about the police. He argued that police officers run the risk of developing racist tendencies because of their largely negative experiences with minorities. He argued that cops should never consider someone’s appearance when deciding whether a situation is suspicious or not. I argued that someone’s appearance can be useful information when deciding whether a situation is suspicious. My friend stopped short of calling me a racist, but the conversation ended abruptly and he made it very clear he was deeply disturbed by what I told him.

Your friend correctly states the law. Looking (and even being!) homeless, or thuggish, or poor, or black are all perfectly legal activities and it is hard to see how looking homeless or looking like a thug (which is a short way of saying "adopts the fashions and bearing of young urban black men) could possibly be an indication that criminal activity is afoot, which is a rough equivalent of the standard for a Terry stop (a reasonable suspicion, based on specific and articulable facts, that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed).

[SeaDragonTattoo]

@MacTech

Suit-and-tie guy; insufferable, self-important prat at best, scumbag, not to be trusted at worst (assuming the SATG is wearing the SAT voluntarily, not due to job requirements/dress code, if SAT is a dress code, no judgement is applied)

I was returning a rental car a few Saturdays ago, and saw a guy standing next to a car in the driveway where I was pulling in. He was wearing SAT, just like the other employees, so I stopped and asked, “Do I just pull in to any space?” and he said, “Oh, I don’t work here.” Any my first thought to myself was, then why are you wearing a monkey suit? He must have been doing the pre-rental inspection.

@Is_it_safe

We can’t avoid it to some degree. I know I do it. I’m less likely to trust anyone in a suit btw – or a polo shirt

I can’t even express how much I HATE polo shirts! First thing in my head when I see some dude in a polo is: TOOL. And sympathy for the poor schlucks who have to wear them for work. They get a pass.

As to the OP, passing an opinion on a combination of race and dress is sometimes where I find myself tripped up. Riding public transit every day really helps me run the paces of “does this person fit his/her clothes?” I’ve found most of the time I really have to focus more on accessories and cleanliness than anything else. He’s wearing a suit, but it’s out of date and the collar’s worn. She looks homeless, but she’s got a new cell phone, she’s clean, and has jewelry and a nice barrette. Things usually missed on the first pass.

So I guess I’m saying the “first impression” as in the first 10 seconds can be really wrong.