Because in the Christian grace, it’s being assumed that you actually do believe, rather than just going through the motions to be polite, and in the Jewish Passover, you are taking the role of a stranger being instructed. In fact, in general, the Christians are supposed to try to convert you, and the Jews are supposed to try to dissuade you from being converted (at least as I understand it).
I wouldn’t mind doing it at their house, but my sister and her husband insist on doing this everywhere we go, including out to restaurants. It’s extremely irritating to me, as I’m pretty agnostic myself.
They do the whole handholding thing, too. My nieces and nephew know if they’re sitting beside me, the circle is broken. They don’t even reach for me anymore…
I don’t mind the praying, to any deity or the universe in general, truly.
While, in life, I am a hand holder, I am not keen to hold your child’s hand, before I eat. You may be immune to whatever’s going around in his world, but I have no children, making me fertile ground for any bug.
It’s flu season, and everyone is about to eat, it just seems ill advised. I think holding hands should be for when your family is alone together. But I’m sure that’s just me.
Exactly. I think it is rude that I have not been invited to a nice, naked lady dancing / open fire / animal sacrifice stereotypical event dammit. What, don’t they want to convert me?
I do agree that if you invited the Southern Baptists over to your bacchanalia celebration you are asking for a bit of a reaction, no doubt. I am also sure that there are many Christians who would not go to a traditional Passover celebration as well.
However, I also think that there are plenty of Christians like yours truly that would happily show respect to the faith of others (or lack of faith for that matter) when guests in their home. Just show me how to quietly give you respect and we are all good.
Now - who is throwing the Druidic Doper meeting and inviting me? I need to find a way to justify a business trip to your area so that I can partake and prove my open-minded willingness to respect your need to dance naked around the fire while I gnaw on some freshly sacrificed wild game.
Because a Seder is a specifically religious activity, while a regular old meal is not. When I accept someone’s invitation to go to their church I don’t mind fitting in either.
This issue never came up much, because, luckily for me, my father-in-law is an atheist also. However I don’t bow my head for anyone, but since everyone else supposedly has their eyes closed, they wouldn’t know. I don’t think I ever got stuck holding hands - which I object to since I’m not a Campfire Girl. If I was in a situation where this happened frequently I think I would develop a sudden need to visit the john, and tell them to go on without me. Just to be sure I’d bring a book. War and Peace.
I used to do that too in church, when the pastor asked everyone to bow their heads and pray, my eyes would be wide open staring at everyone lol.
I’m with those who say that it’s not rude to expect guests to be silent and respectful during prayer.
My family says grace over family meals. We don’t expect our friends and loved ones who don’t share in our beliefs to do anything more than allow us a moment of respectful silence. We certainly don’t want to put pressure on them to be more religious. Of course, none of us are really into organized religion, and evangelism on the basis of implied superiority is one of the things that bothers us the most about it.
Expecting guests to pray with us, on the other hand, would be totally offensive. It implies that the hosts think that how to pray in their religion is required knowledge for all guests, and as such that their religion is more important than their guests’. It’s also against many religions to pray to gods other than their own.
But I think It’s only rude if the guests don’t practice the same religion as you.
That’s a good point. If they are, it’s perhaps even a show of respect for them.
You mean if religious people turn up as guests and insist on performing some ritual that makes their host feel awkward? Yep - that’s rude too.
So its rude to exercise their rite as a host and as a guest?
What would you do in Japan?
I believe that is bowing to, not bowing for.
This really is a bit bizarre to me. It seems so clear.
Forcing a guest to engage in your rituals is bad hosting.
Staying quiet while your host indulges their rituals is being a good guest.
Forcing your rituals on your host is bad manners.
This is all basic manners. Why is there even a debate? Are that many people so socially fucked up?
I don’t see anything other than semantic wordplay there. What do you mean?
I think it’s rude to expect them to actively take part, like actually asking the blessing or saying amen or whatever, unless you know such a thing is compatible with their beliefs. It’s not rude to expect them to sit or stand quietly for a minute or two while the blessing is being asked. The hand-holding is an altogether thornier issue because the unbroken circle is such a powerful religious and secular symbol of community and togetherness. Being part of the circle can mean “I join you in offering this praise to the Deity” but it can also mean “we come together as a community despite our religious differences as we break this bread together.” Leaving someone out of the circle can mean “we respect your right not to join us in offering praise the Deity” but it can also mean “you’re not truly welcome as a member of our community because you’re different from us.” Whether it’s rude to ask someone to hold hands with you while you pray depends pretty heavily on what the hand-holding means to each of you.
As for people coming over and praying, more power to 'em. It generally won’t occur to me to make the offer, but it’s generally a moot point because people who would pray aloud or silently are going to do it regardless. I’m not going to start eating while I’m aware someone is praying, though I might go on and fill my plate. Not because of any particular religious respect, it just strikes me as bad manners to start shoveling food into my gob while my guests are still getting themselves situated at table. I’d wait for someone who was cutting up their kid’s food or getting their napkin sorted out or taking a pill or something, so why wouldn’t I wait for them to finish praying?
This exactly.
Is it rude to expect the guests to eat at the table? What if one of them wants to eat in front of the TV in the other room?
During grace is a good time to start slurping your soup.
Why not? Some things make other people feel awkward - and it’s rude to do these whether you are a host or a guest. There’s no reason why this should be symmetrical.
It’s rude for me to pick my nose at the table, regardless whether it’s my party or someone else’s.