So you’re saying that Christians are like five-year-olds?
five year old nose pickers
One of the ritual things we do after prayer is all wash our hands. 
A little side note: Our 9 year old daughter came home a few days ago and told us that a parent had “made her” say grace in the school cafeteria. It’s a parent she doesn’t know and the lady was with her son while he ate breakfast in the cafeteria at the same table as our daughter. We are not religious and we don’t pray before meals but my daughter said she just said something along the lines of “thank you for this meal” because this lady was staring at her until she said something. She goes to a public school here in CA and I was angry enough to make a big deal out of it and email the principal and her teacher about it, but I just let it go.
On the other hand, if I am at someone’s home and they pray and hold hands before each meal, I would politely close my eyes and stay quiet to be respectful. I normally don’t close my eyes and I just say “amen” at the end with everyone (don’t know why). However, it would irritate me if they asked me or my family do it their way.
I agree with the majority–it’s best just to stay quiet and let them get on with it. No need to participate if you don’t share the beliefs, but also no need to disrupt things by making your opinions known.
I get to deal with this every year at Thanksgiving–the spouse’s side of the family is very Christian, and in the last two or three years they’ve moved from saying Grace before the meal to a full-boat (albeit short) church ceremony before the meal, complete with at least one song, a responsive reading, and a long prayer/mini-sermon. It’s kind of annoying since I’m not religious, but I just sit there and listen (I don’t sing or join in the responsive reading, nor do I close my eyes during the prayer). So far nobody’s given me any flak about it. They’re a nice bunch and if they’re judgmental about the fact that their son is married to a heathen, they haven’t said anything about it to me (or to him, unless he’s keeping it from me.)
Only in the sense that they both believe in mythical beings, and it is rude to poke holes in that mythology in their own house. Five year olds get a little more comsideration because they are not expected to know better.
Mostly, I doubt they even think about it; they just assume that everybody assembled for dinner must be of their tribe, sharing their beliefs.
The reason that declining to take part in the prayer frequently causes such consternation isn’t that they’re bothered by your rudeness (if it is that) so much as they’re upset to find that an outsider, someone not of their tribe, is in their midst, dining at their table.
I don’t think it’s so much rude as clueless. Not only do the non-religious understandably feel uncomfortable when expected to participate, not all of us who are believers are okay with public prayers, either; for example I pray daily, but not out loud or in the presence of others because I feel prayer is meant to be private (see also - the book of Matthew). There’s nothing wrong with them praying or even inviting others to do so, but to simply expect that people will shows a lack of concern for other viewpoints and/or even not having an awareness of them.
I can understand why people decline to participate, but I’m not sure I get why anyone takes offense, or makes an obvious show of avoiding the ritual. Before traveling, most people will consult a travel guide, Travel Channel blogs, or ask someone experienced what customs to expect, and how to fit in, or at least how not to cause offense. Without ever having visiting, I can name several foreign customs off the top of my head, and I bet most posters in this thread, too.
It seems odd to me that we would respect foreign cultural customs and habits, but not those in our backyard.
I think nothing of bowing my head and closing my eyes, and I can either listen or blank out during a recitation, but it doesn’t cost me a thing to play along for a few seconds. I’ve been the target of a couple prayers, too, to the point of making me very uncomfortable: “Dear Lord, please turn the hearts of those who don’t belong to your precious house of worship” and “God, please forgive those present who are not joined in your blessed eyes”. An eye roller for sure, and the King James Biblespeak almost cracked me up, but my only recourse would be to stomp out indignantly and miss some terrific food and the fellowship of everyone at the table who didn’t publicly damn me.
If believers come to my house for dinner, it never occurs to me to pray or offer a moment of silence for prayer. If believers sneak in a prayer before grabbing a biscuit, fine by me. With the rare exception of the passive aggressive power play I described earlier, a prayer doesn’t appear on my radar as peculiar, or rude, or anything other than a cultural custom deserving of respect.
Can I adopt Aunt Rita? I could use an ally at the next family Passover seder.
That is rude and disrespectful.
**CitizenPained, ** I just read another thread that Dogzilla posted in, and I can’t blame her for refusing to support any religious institution or custom. In fact, I wish I had an apology big enough for any and every time the issue of religion invades her space. I wish I could apologize for human behavior in general, but all I can offer is my utmost respect for any decision she makes regarding religion.
…but that isn’t the question being asked in the thread. That you should play along has been the premise for the entire thread. The question is, is the behavior rude?
No.
Sitting quietly with a slightly bemused expression is not rude.
Reading a book on your Palm Pilot is rude.
Making a call on your cell phone is rude.
Ah, shoot OpalCat, I didn’t answer that question, either. Yeah, it’s presumptuous, and maybe a little self-serving if prayer before a meal isn’t a daily ritual, but one trotted out for holiday show. Ive mostly seen the holiday prayer, and only rarely witnessed the fast food prayer.
But if praying before each meal is truly that person’s daily ritual, I think the answer is no, it isn’t rude. When in Rome and stuff. I worked for years with a Muslim woman who retreated to the bathroom stall to chant a couple of her 5 daily prayers, and I always wished she could do the same in a breakroom or cafeteria without causing a ruckus. She shouldn’t have been confined to a filthy bathroom stall for that ritual, and I would have gladly made room and stood quietly and respectfully by if she’d prostrated her lanky self right out on the carpet. Of course, it’s unlikely she would have expected me to stretch out in an Eastern direction alongside her… but I’d have helped her up for sure.
Also, if you go to someone’s Passover Seder and get offended at the religious content, you are a moron. The religious content is the primary purpose of the occasion.
Also, purely on the Jewish/Christian issue, I was raised Jewish (of the pretty ultra-reform variety), and offhand I can’t think of much in the way of content in any Jewish prayer that would conceivably offend any regular practicing Christian. Am I missing something? I guess someone could get annoyed if prayers were in Hebrew with no translation…
As I recall the First Commandment, it says “You shall have no other gods*** before Me***”…it doesn’t say anywhere that they don’t exist. Who am I to say that Mother Earth wasn’t directly responsible for providing the bounty set before me?
I don’t think it denies my deity in the least to sit quietly while my host says a prayer to whatever god or gods they believe in, gives thanks to the man and women who provided our food, thanks the animals who gave their lives so that we could eat, or whatever ritual it is that they observe before a meal.
As many others have said, it’s really just a matter of common courtesy. Ask any six-year-old, and odds are they’ll know exactly how you should behave, because their kindergarten teacher will have taught them.
I live in South Africa, but there’s a large Somali community here. A Somali acquaintance invited a bunch of us to his daughter’s 10th birthday party, I was all 
“Why invite a bunch of work acquaintances to that”, someone else more experienced with Somalis explained that this would be her post-circumcision “She’s a real woman now” thing, I was :eek: “No fucking way”, I confronted the dude as to whether this was, in fact, the case, he was all 
“we just nick it, honest, this isn’t the home country”, I was :mad: “No shit, Sherlock - BTW, you say this is happening Saturday? I’m calling the cops if you don’t stop it” He was all “cultural heritage, bitch” :smack:
So I called the cops, and they did…
…absolutely nothing 
Well, no, they hauled the guy and his wife in, but only afterwards, and they let him go again after an hour or so. Apparently neither his wife nor his kid would lay a complaint, so their hands were pretty much tied, CPS being what it is in this country.
Let me preface this - I am not religious, I do not pray, I do not expect others to participate in any ritual I may have going
BUT…
If I have guests around, whether it be family or otherwise, dinner ain’t starting until and unless EVERYONE is seated, and in such a manner that they are ready to eat.
If I were to have any pre dinner rituals, I would see them as part of the meal, so the very act of somebody not being there would be a production in and of itself of the order - OI, why isn’t Dibble here? Should we wait for him or not?
I don’t think “praying in public” would quite have been in line with the tenets…not exactly sure though and I stand to be corrected