Here we get Christmas, Chinese New Year, Hari Raya and Deepavali - all are catered to :)
An alarming number of believers think that if you can just get the non-believer to say the Magic Words said non-believer will be miraculously transformed into one of the [del]pod people[/del] believers.
I have approx zero interest in how anyone chooses to practice Christianity or any other faith up to and until their practices interfere with the rights and will of others. So it’s fine with me if the host’s pre-meal ritual includes a rousing rendition of the hokey pokey; it’s all the same to me.
Sorry…I don’t think I answered the question either. Like I mentioned, I will be respectful if I am in someone’s home when they pray before a meal. But yes, I think it’s rude if they expect me to participate or do something different than what I am already doing to be polite. What that lady did to my daughter was rude. You don’t just walk into a school cafeteria and ask a random child to say grace and stare at the child until she does. That’s rude in my opinion.
Actually, that goes several steps beyond rude into abusive. I’d make sure that parent wasn’t allowed to function like that around other children if the child in question was mine.
This is so far beyond rude that I think you should re-think your decision not to go to the principal. They at least need to know that this happened. If it happens again tell your child to figure out whose parent it is and tell the principal. This is completely inappropriate and that parent needs to be called out on it and told they cannot behave that way.
Forget the meals…a woman who will chamber a shotgun herself to threaten somebody for something this minor? I think I’m in love!
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I’d leave the room if there was a standing grace (the usual type I encounter), which was what I was responding to… For what you’re describing, I’d just sit it out right where I am. If hand-holding was going to be happening (rather than hand-folding) you’d get the same quiet “no, thanks, I don’t pray” that I’d give *if asked *why I’m leaving the room.
I spent a weekend a few years ago with a bunch of couples, including a Muslim. The weekend ended in Eid. Out of respect for our Muslim friend, we held dinner until after sundown and didn’t set food out during the day (we ate - we didn’t set out bowls of snacks or munch throughout the day like we normally would with a weekend like this). It was a varied group of people - Christians, atheists, Wiccans, Unitarians - including a bunch of kids - no one had an issue with this.
I didn’t say that Christians refused to participate in the religious traditions of others-My claim was that when threads of this nature pop up, posts saying that people should respect the traditions of others and participate(or at least pretend to participate) in them are directed at non-Christians in regard to Christian traditions.
OK, I’ll come out and say it. I’m a non-Christian. People should respect the traditions of Christians, as well as other traditions. Respect may mean different things in context. During Ramadan, its holding dinner until after sunset and not eating a huge lunch in front of your Muslim guests. At the dinner table, its bowing your head if grace is said. Invited to a Pagan ritual where a nineteen year old girl is burning things belonging to her ex to help her get over him while calling it a spell, you participate as appropriate, and don’t loudly announce its a crock. Invited to a Catholic wedding where there is a mass - stand and kneel when everyone else does. A Jewish one, cover your head. That’s being polite.
And I’ve said so before in other threads of this nature.
And you are a refreshing exception to the imbalance I have perceived on this board.
I doubt it’s as unbalanced as it appears. I would like to think that for most people those things are common sense. And I think that for most people it’s so common sense they don’t bother posting.
And if it is mostly directed at Christian traditions, that’s mostly likely because most posters are in the US, and the majority religion there is still Christianity, so that’s the one that comes up the most. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have basic politeness and respect for non-Christian faiths or lack thereof.
While I might nit-pick with Dangerosa about the details of respecting other’s traditions I do agree with the general tone and approach. (For example, I don’t think I need to bow my head if grace is being said; staying still and quiet seems sufficient to me).
I made my peace with my in-laws holding hands and saying grace years ago – they know I’m agnostic, I know they know… I hold hands, I stay quiet and don’t join in prayers, etc… and they don’t call for grace at my house (though they may, and have, said grace silently).
If I go to a wedding or a funeral I expect there might be hymns and prayers (or not, it varies)… don’t like it, don’t go. Seems reasonable.
OTOH, I do not like getting bushwhacked. I was at a backyard BBQ at a friend’s place – someone I have known for 20+ years – and who has never seemed religious. Apparently he’s got active in a church, and at the BBQ asked his minister – who was there as a guest – to lead us all in prayer before eating. I say prayer rather than grace because this wasn’t a little “For what we are about to receive…” sort of thing but the full on beseeching deal. I was more than a bit taken aback – because it was quite unexpected – and while standing there quietly as this was going on I took the opportunity to look around and I’d say over half the guests were looking a bit surprised and bewildered.
His house, his rules, and all that jazz, and it would have been rude to make any fuss over it… but the experience was not a comfortable one, and has influenced my decision to accept or decline further invitations.
I once had a relatively amusing bit of confusion with a Jewish couple who came to visit me. We were walking around in the park, and the wife had a tendency to walk about three paces behind her husband. My instincts are to hang at the rear of any group of people, so I would hang back with her, and let him go forward by himself. She, meanwhile, would try to fall back behind me, affording me the same (male?) privilege of being in the lead.
We’d all three get strung way out like beads falling off a string. Every thirty paces or so, we’d all stop, waiting for each other to catch up.
We never really did solve the problem…
You might be correct.
Holding hands is not a big deal. Also, it’s common decency to respect the customs of the people who have invited you to join in observance of a custom or a holiday that has religious observances that they are observing.
I’d hold hands but if anyone insisted I close my eyes or make the sign of a cross or other such nonsense I’d politely excuse myself and tell them that I’m not one of their “lot”.
(someone else linked this and it’s pure awesome in this context, and I’ll give it to you with it’s context, which is all just great stuff)
Matthew 6
1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5**And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. **
7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Even the bible tells you it’s a fairly dick thing to make a production out of your praying around people. Once you become the area’s dominant religion though I suppose lording it over others at meals becomes the norm and eventually people tell themselves enough times it’s not being ridiculous that they believe it themselves. Pray when you wake up or go to the bathroom, the food steam doesn’t help the message get to God. He has full bars all the time.
I didn’t really want to get into the theological whys and wherefores before, but I do agree. The Bible says not to make a production out of praying.
I think it’s OK to do it when it can be reasonably assumed everyone present consents to take part - it’s not showing off in that context - it’s just a communal act of worship. But imposing it on a guest in such a way to make them unconfortable defeats or overrides the object.
It’s all well and fine when religion imparts meaning to individuals or coherent groups, but it’s not good to impose it upon others, to their discomfort.
The cake is a lie 