If not, what is the alternate term?
We’re in the middle of a really nice one right now and it got me wondering. I’ve never heard an objection and never saw an alternate term.
A little research, (very little) shows the term occured at least as early as 1778.
It probably isn’t offensive, but that’s not for me to say.
I don’t know if it’s wrong to use the phrase but I’ve heard the local news weatherperson talking about “unseasonably warm weather”, which seems to convey the same meaning.
Could be a folk etymology, but I’ve heard that the origin goes back to a time when “Indian” was a synonym for “false”; cf, “Indian giver.”
I’m not sure why “Indian” would be a synonym for “false,” unless there was a time when a lot of costume jewelry or some other kind of “looks expensive but it’s not” product came either from reservations or the sub-continent-- or even the Indies Islands.
If that is the etymology, I’d say it’s offensive, but then, you could just say “false summer.”
A beautiful old song… (these are not all the lyrics).
“Indian Summer”
Summer, you old Indian Summer
You’re the tear that comes after June-time’s laughter
You see so many dreams that don’t come true
Dreams we fashioned when Summertime was newYou are here to watch over
Some heart that is broken by a word that somebody left unspoken
You’re the ghost of a romance in June going astray
Fading too soon, that’s why I say
“Farewell to you, Indian Summer”
Ella Fitzgerald singing it:
I’m gonna guess Indian Summer is offensive. The Chicago Tribune annually printed the cartoon by J. McCutcheon titled Injun Summer. It was pulled about 10 years ago. I’m 63 and every autumn I looked forward to it.
Well, yeah, “injun” is definitely offensive.
On the other hand, I’ve heard the explanation that Indians had to explain the weather pattern to early settlers.
I think you’re right that “Indian” was used for “false” - but there’s no mystery why. English often uses an enemy’s name to mean “false” - a “Dutch treat” is no treat at all, and “French leave” is desertion not “leave.” So “Indian summer” is a false summer, just like “Indian corn” (maize - yes, I know that “Indian corn” means something slightly different now, but “Indian corn” was originally just maize) meant “not really corn like we know it, but something that’s a bit like corn” (back when the English were using “corn” to mean wheat).
Indigenous Peoples Summer! Please try to use the preferred nomenclature.
You’re out of your element Donnie!
Yes, related to the term Indian Giver. A first frost has to occur, followed by a warm spell, then back to colder weather. Essentially winter has “taken back” its gift of warmth.
Wiki, and other sources I’ve seen indicate ‘Indian’ means Native American, not false. ‘Indian Giver’ does not mean false giver, it means someone who takes back a gift, possibly a sense of a false giver, but are there any other uses of the ‘Indian’ in that manner?
Lacking a credible source I’ll stick with the explanation provided in the wiki.
Maybe a misunderstanding of potlatch?
I’m not seeing really seeing that. This article discusses the term ‘Indian Giver’ and doesn’t even find it that offensive. I think the offensive part is ascribing the behavior to ‘Indians’ because tons of cultures tolerate dubious manners when it comes to gifts.
Despite hearing the story about ‘Indian’ meaning ‘false’ many times, I’ve never seen a credible source back that up. Doesn’t mean there isn’t such a source though, it hasn’t been my life’s work to track this down.
How about “Redskin Respite”?
We don’t use the term “Indian giver” in Australia, but the indigenous cultures here certainly did have customs where giving a gift did not transfer ownership.
Not that there is anything odd about that, but where there is ignorance, there is often cultural misunderstanding.
Googling a bit, I found that apparently “second summer” was a term that has been used before, and would still work.
I think “unseasonably warm” has the drawback that global warming and climate change are a thing, so what counts as seasonable changes. But “second summer” could just mean “it went cool for a bit, but then got hot again.”
There are a bunch of nice alternatives to the phrase “Indian summer” to designate warm autumn weather after the first frost(s). “Gossamer” for “goose summer” may be my favorite, but probably too archaic. What we’re having now in the US would be approximately “St. Martin’s summer”.
“Halcyon days” has an interesting classical history and Shakespearean connections:
Article on the origins of and alternatives to the phrase “Indian summer”:
Not at all. “Indian Summer” refers to the completely predictable warm spell we usually get after the first frost. This year’s Indian summer is warmer than usual, but only by a few degrees. “Unseasonably warm weather” sounds like this is unexpected.
I don’t care for “St. Martin’s summer” even if people understood me, because it sounds weirdly Christian. I like “goose summer”, but I don’t think anyone would understand it. Maybe I’ll try on “second summer”. That’s reasonably clear.
You have a cite for that? Because my understanding is that corn meant the main local cereal grain in wherever the speaker happens to be. So for England, yes, that’s wheat, but for Scotland that could be oats, or rye in parts of Europe. So “Indian corn” was just an identifier (compare “barleycorn”), not a real indicator of being ersatz.
I guess I’m pretty conservative when it comes to well-established usage, unless it’s clearly and truly offensive. All of the suggested alternatives to “Indian summer” are problematic, IMHO. “Unseasonably warm”, as already stated, conveys a sense of a random unexpected weather event rather than a fairly regular occurrence in the fall. “Second summer” is potentially confusing. If someone says, “if you plant this shrub, don’t do any pruning until the second summer”, does that mean not until a warm period in the fall, or not until the following summer?
According to Wikipedia, “Although the exact origins of the term are uncertain, it was perhaps so-called because it was first noted in regions inhabited by American Indians, or because the Indians first described it to Europeans, or it had been based on the warm and hazy conditions in autumn when American Indians hunted.” So this seems to be a case of looking for potential offensiveness where the actual people being referenced don’t have a problem with it. At least, I’ve never heard any of the indigenous North American population complain about it. If they do have a problem with it, then sure, we should revisit the issue.