There are 6 kids, well, 4 kids aged 15-17, a 20 year old and TheKid. There are two “leaders”, the youth director and one of the kid’s mom. TheKid is loosely in charge of the girls.
The only places they stopped on their way to North Carolina were McDonald’s, DQ, Subway, gas stations…and Walmarts. Seriously. No tourist traps. No historical markers. Nothing.
The youth director drives down to Orlando every year with her family. I’m sure it’s all old hat to her, but to the kids it’s all new. It just seems very sad to me.
What do they plan to visit in Orlando, compared to what other tourist traps they have missed along the way?
Personally, Orlando isn’t my cup of tea, but it seems to me that it’s Tourist Trap Central. If that’s your thing, you might want to maximize time there rather than stop off at South of the Border on the way.
I think there’s another vacation/road trip issue here: whether it’s more fun going with a group versus as a couple or traveling by yourself. Once you get more than 3 or 4 people traveling together it’s pretty hard to be really spontaneous.You kind of have to have a plan of some sort – and that means you end up doing what everyone else wants. That means you have to have a mindset of just being along for the ride and going with the road trip flow.
With that mix and those ages, I understand more of where the youth director is coming from.
With that many people, quick stops are harder; herding everyone out of and then back into the car(s) can take quite a bit of time, I could easily see a day’s worth of time added each direction. She’ll have to worry about being fair - if she stops at a historical site marker for Jane, she’ll have to stop at a cute roadside store for Sally, and the beach for Emma or have to justify why not and then have to deal with the intergroup conflict that’ll bring up.
The “fairness” issue also makes it more understandable why TheKid is being told not to explore. I can see a difference between 17 & 21, but many 17-year-olds can’t see that or can definitely see room for an argument. It’s easier to just lay down a rule “you’re with the group or you’re in a hotel” than to have the fight and/or worry about 15-year-olds that you’re responsible for on their own in a different state.
When I was in youth groups around those ages, we tended to do the same thing. There were a couple of stops, but they were known before we left. We weren’t following our wanderlust on the road. Too much of a headache for those in charge.
It might not occur to her that there’s anything interesting to see along the way. I took road trips every summer from Georgia to Indiana when I was a kid, and we never did any sight-seeing along the way. It’s not because my parents were no-fun fuddy-duddies. It’s just that they didn’t know what things were out there for us to check out. I think it’s because they didn’t grow up taking road trips at all. And there’s something scary about being out on the road in unfamiliar setting, when you’re already worried about all the things that could go wrong.
I could see myself being the leader of the group and wanting to stop at every roadside spectacle, but being afraid too. What if we get out of the van and this is when someone decides to twist their ankle? Or a kid wanders off and gets kidnapped? Or someone rams into the van as we pull out of the tiny parking lot? Then everyone will want to know why I couldn’t have just stuck with the itinerary instead of trying to be the Magic Schoolbus lady!
It’s irrational, but I can kinda understand it as a recovering worrywart.
The travelling I’ve done, especially the longer trips, was always to get to a specific place for specific reasons. Usually there’s hotel reservations involved, because I don’t like to drive around in an unfamiliar area trying to find somewhere to stay. Once I get to where I’m going, I do like to try to explore a bit. And I could see some situations where I wasn’t in a particular hurry to get somewhere and decided to just see what there is to see. But if I travel a good distance it’s usually to see people and I’d rather get there faster so I can spend time with them.
In your situation I could see the adults not wanting to venture into unfamiliar territory in case something bad happens. I’d hate to have to explain to someone’s parents how we decided to stop at a rattlesnake farm just for the hell of it, and their kid’s now comatose.
Those ages aren’t “kids”, they’re nearing adult hood. Were they involved in any of the planning? In fact, they should have planned the whole thing. That was one of the things I liked about working with scouts at that age - the adults are there to drive and for safety, but the itinerary was up to them to figure out ahead of time. It can be difficult to satisfy everyone, which is part of the learning involved.
Did you know what the schedule was before the trip? If it was a take-it-or-leave-it package I probably would have left it. There’s times when you want to just get there, but if that’s the case that’s what jets are for, otherwise I’d make at least one major stop in each state along the way.
We also have a rule that when we take a road trip that we NEVER stop at McDonald’s or Subway; they’re just too common here (I’m also in Minnesota). If we stop at fast food, at least try something that’s not available locally. Ordering at Whattaburger or Sonic is almost like trying to order something in France - I’d expose them to some variety.
The youth decided the North Carolina portion of the trip. The youth director decided the route and to go to Orlando on the way home (she has a time share there). They still don’t know when they’re going to be home - TheKid believes they’re leaving Thursday morning to head back home.
Like you, whenever TheKid and I have done road trips, McDonald’s and the like are off the list of acceptable places to eat. I refuse. I understand not wanting to deal with the hassle of too many voices and choices, but diners have something for everyone in this group.
TheKid dithered about going on the trip in the first place. Where they went in North Carolina was a very “Up With Jesus” kind of camp, not her thing. She had hoped the journey would make up for the 4 days of forced happy religion. Didn’t happen. Actually, camp was more enjoyable for her.
As far as timing - having deadlines - I understand that, completely. They had to be in North Carolina Sunday night. They had hotels lined up on their route. However, if they had nixed wandering around Walmart twice a day, at least an hour per time, they could have seen some interesting things.
Staying in the hotel sounds ridiculous, but I imagine the director is afraid that something will happen and she won’t know where to tell the police to start looking.
I guess your daughter can look at it as a long, uncomfortable lesson. Next time, travel with friends where, when there are disagreements about where to go she will have an equal voice.
It doesn’t sound like the church is a good fit for her, either, or really anyone, if the director is so vindictive. At 21, is this your daughter’s last experience with the youth director?
Both her and I go for the community, not the religion. My family has been members of the church since 1932. It’s a very small church, usually a whopping 50-60 people on a given Sunday. My mom is religious, so we go for her and the people we love.
The youth director is a force to be reckoned with, for sure. She is powerful in her own way. A true director, she has a talent for getting other people to do things - I will be honest when I say if it weren’t for her, the church probably would’ve closed it’s doors a decade ago (Minneapolis went through a huge purge back then - there are three “original” churches of over a dozen that changed hands or closed in the neighborhood).
Youth is relative, too. There is a married couple, aged 25, that participate in the youth activities all the time. TheKid doesn’t do many of the little things the kids do - sleepovers, shows, games. In the past few years she’s gone to the weeklong camp in Northern Minnesota only.
She may be 21, but she’s in the hands of the church director. So sorry, that’s the terms of the arrangement. And why is she saying no to Sea World? So she can sit in the hotel room by herself?
Trips like these are all about the destination. I would not expect the church director to stop at 15 places on the way. If you want that I’m afraid you have to go yourself.
I see about 4 issues here:
- The OP asks what each of us prefer to do on trips.
- The OP indirectly asks what’s reasonable for a group church event with folks this age.
- The OP asks whether her kid being unhappy is unreasonable.
- The OP implicitly states that the trip was known to be likely to be a failure before it began and her kid went anyway. Please provide sympathy.
My take:
4) Yup. it’s pretty obvious this was a bad idea doomed to failure. No sympathy here. But even a bad time is a good lesson. So all is not wasted. I suspect the lesson is that it’s kinda silly for a 21yo to attend a church whose doctrine she doesn’t agree with and hang out with folks she doesn’t like or who have dissimilar likes/dislikes, just to somehow make her grandmother slightly happier.
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The kid being unhappy is reasonable. The kid whining (if they’re doing so) is not, since everything happening was fully predictable. Grownups don’t whine.
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Whether the leadership is reasonable or not depends on the personalities involved. For the personalities we’ve been introduced to, yep, fully “reasonable” in the sense of predictable and inevitable. Sure as heck not the way I’d run the event if I was in charge though.
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There are two disjoint reasons to travel: to experience what’s along the way, and to get to wherever you’re going as quickly and as painlessly as possible. Both kinds of trip are 100% fine. Failure occurs when folks in a group don’t agree on which trip they’re taking.
Group travel is always a lowest-common-denominator type of event. IMO/IME two people is the absolute max for group travel. More virtually guarantees both McDonalds and dissension. Unless everyone involved is a pro traveler & the group is chosen for that skill & attitude.
LSLGuy
Pro traveler
My response:
- Yes, that was the basis of this thread. I honestly don’t get the “It’s the destination” mindset
- I explained the trip was through a church event upon being asked what kind of trip it was. I didn’t ask whether, since it was a church trip, it was unreasonable to not stop and see sights.
- Personally, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for my daughter to be slightly cranky about the way the trip has gone. She’s not the only one who is feeling that way.
- I know my daughter and I know the youth director. I figured she would not be happy, but going was her decision. NO, I am NOT asking for sympathy. FFS.
I began this thread HONESTLY asking whether it’s the journey or the destination. I have been attempting to answer questions as the thread has gone along. I forget, this is the Dope.
Yes, I am irked about where they ate. Yes, I’m irked at all the time spent at Walmart. No, I didn’t know it would be this way.
I’m confused why you’d think such a tightly wound church group would accommodate ’ enjoying the journey’? That seems somewhat misguided to me.
I’m also confused by a twenty one year old accompanying a church group she not really on the same page with, to travel with 15-17 year olds, when she doesn’t seem to want to participate when she gets there?
I’ll bet they’re a little frustrated with her too!
I take a lot of trips by myself. For me it’s always about the destination. I want to get out of the car, get comfy where I land and then start exploring the destination or enjoying my company I came to visit.
I don’t want any extra hours on the road just because someone did something at some spot “only a half hour off the freeway” or because there’s some sort of custard stand somewhere that tastes slightly different than the custard they sell down the road from me.
Sorry if I came off as a hard-ass. I agree it reads a lot less friendly than I meant. I don’t blame you for being frustrated with the situation, or with me.
Trip or Destination? Depends totally on the trip. There are many trips where if I could snap my fingers and be teleported from my easy chair at home to the one in my hotel room I absolutely would. Every second wasted on the road / in the air is a second I’m not doing the thing I’m traveling to do.
Other trips are primarily about the journey (and the companions) and the destination is almost an afterthought. Those trips have lots of long lunches at places selected at random, strange side trips, weird museums, etc.
For folks in general, a lot of trips by car are done that way not out of a desire to stop along the way, but because car travel is cheaper than air travel for a group and folks are on a tight budget. The fact that car travel for any appreciable distance is slower than air travel is all the more reason for folks to sleep short, eat fast, and drive non-stop. The car, the highway, and all the distractions the countryside offers are obstacles to the success of the trip, not contributors to it.
Homogenized suburbanized middle-class Americans are by and large not very adventurous. And tend to be goal-oriented rather than process-oriented. So it’s not surprising that many folks have the *destination isn’t everything; it’s the only thing *mentality. Disappointing, but not surprising. IMO enjoying the journey is a more advanced skill.
What I think I see in the OP’s telling of the tale is they’re doing a lot of stopping, but it’s really stupid stopping: one Walmart after another. And that would drive me right bonkers if I was along. As it seems to be driving the daughter & the OP bonkers by proxy as well.
The thing is, the “adventure” vs “just get there” thing has to be decided before the trip begins. If you’re going somewhere, you have reservations. If you see things that look interesting along the way, it would be quite easy to take an extra day or two beyond what you expected, and there go your reservations.
So decide in advance and plan for it.
Just a few weeks ago I drive to Denver, a thousand miles each way. I saw a bunch of things that looked interesting, including 2 Presidential libraries, the Strategic Air Force Museum, a motorcycle museum, and some western towns in Kansas. I didn’t go to any of the because there just wasn’t time.
I agree that it’s kind of sad to spend a week or so traveling and never stop to eat or shop at a place you don’t have access to at home. The planned trip to Sea World sounds like expensive fun to me (as a grown up who last went almost 30 years ago–and not to the one in Florida).
But I’m not sure that Destination vs. Journey is something that can be explained, really. I think there are advantages to being able to spend most of one’s time at the Destination and minimize times that one must pack up one’s belongings. On the other hand, there are times and places when it’s nice not to have to make the whole trip with as few stops as possible.
And while travel-planning by committee can be a pain, I think it does sound like it might have been possible to stop someplace more scenic than Walmart.
Having, as a youngster, traveled both with friends and with school groups, I can appreciate that both have to be run differently. Group trips tend to be more heavily planned, and with good reason as you have to make sure enough hotel rooms are available in the same spot, enough seats are available at a restaurant, or enough tickets are available for an attraction. It severely limits flexibility. But on the positive side, you are likely to be safer, and efforts are usually made for you to see the ‘best’ of an area where possible. Trips with friends are fun to take after you’ve taken the group trips. That way you’ll know where you are going, what’s available, what you did and didn’t like from your previous trip and you can exercise much more flexibility to follow spontaneous impulses which will doubtless occur.
Fighting against whichever format you are presently experiencing is probably futile and will only result in you not enjoying your trip at all. Accept it for what it is and the good that it offers, then go again and do it how you personally want to do it.
For long drives, I’m usually a destination kind of person. Our vacation time is pretty limited and most of our long drives are to take the kids to visit their grandparents. We want to max out the grandparent time, not the travel time. Also, we’ve pretty much worn ruts between our city and the grandparents’ cities, so the scenery isn’t new.
We did take a more leisurely road trip last summer, where we had plans to be in certain places at certain times, but had plenty of time for detours along the way. It was fun, but I don’t see it happening more often.
The trip TheKid is on sounds truly horrible to me, so I don’t think it’s just a destination mindset that’s the problem there.