Irrelevant, since it’s still not a security issue.
…as the official Straight Dope Social Justice Warrior, our official position on Biden’s immigration policy is that it is absolutely NOT woke, and us wokesters had significant issues with it.
This is entirely about perception. The alt-right are lying when they say that it is woke. Thats all there really is to it. And perception trumps reality in a post-truth world.
I don’t think getting down into the details of the policy matter much here. It isn’t a debate about immigration. It’s about whether or not it’s time to tone down the wokeness. And what the immigration issue demonstrates is that it isn’t about “woke” at all. Because a woke immigration policy wouldn’t look like Biden’s.
Basically, this is the illogical right wing position. Assuming that there is no enforcement remains a big lie from the American republican conservatives. That paradoxically makes the issue to become more problematic.
Exactly. They lie; they lie all the time. So it doesn’t matter if the "Democrats “tone down the wokeness” (whatever that means) because that won’t change the lies.
They might as well decide to shut down all the Satanic pedophile pizzerias and weather control machines, it’ll have just as much effect because it has just as much connection to reality. None.
That’s not what’s happening, but I’ll accept that if someone accused someone else of bigotry specifically for that it would be woke.
People are being accused of arguing for certain policies in bad faith. The evidence that many people are making the argument in bad faith is overwhelming.
People are being accused of harboring xenophobia and bigotry. It would be very stupid to dismiss all such accusations out of hand; rather, the evidence should be considered. Again, the evidence is overwhelming that a significant number of Americans harbor xenophobic and bigoted attitudes.
Is this your best definition of “woke”? If so, it describes a nonexistent phenomenon.
It’s become a household meme, between my wife and me, to periodically – generally, prompted by nothing whatsoever – repeat in unison, “They’re eating the dogs. They’re eating the cats. They’re eating the pets … of the people … who live there.”
There are a million low points in the history of Trump since 2015, but to my wife and me … this one gets special status.
It’s as if his ground-breaking:
Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
… left too much ground uncovered.
His strategy (because he’s far more evil than just bone-stupid) was to find a way to terrorize and terrify the remaining simple, “common clay of the New West” swing state voter – live and on national TV … on a debate stage for the Presidency, FFS – who may not have been terrorized by everything else he’d ever said.
That’s the kind of message that the RW worked into the zeitgeist. That’s the kind of hyperbolic broad-brush bullshit that sways no end of low-information voter.
After a hard-working Latino immigrant drives two hours to hang drywall all day at the new residential development where he works, he’s going to drive the two hours back home, shower up, eat dinner with his family, tuck his kids into bed, and then … he’s coming for you and your family!!!
Fear and faith – the default strategy of demagogues the world over.
“And I, alone, can fix it.”
17 posts were merged into an existing topic: Goodkitty Posts
I want to cite this claim, and I don’t think it’s a hijack, because your definition of “woke” is as close as we’ve come to defining the term in the OP, and we need to look at it.
More than half of Americans think that immigrants are causing an increase in violent crime. More than 40% think immigrants are causing an increase in unemployment.
These are false, xenophobic claims. They’re put forth by a right-wing media ecosystem that thrives on bigotry.
…that’s the thing.
I don’t think I’ve EVER done this. Not on these boards. Not in other online spaces. Not in real life.
But (and I don’t mean this in a negative way at all) I consider myself MUCH more woke than DrDeth on pretty much any topic on the spectrum. Which is not to say DrDeth isn’t woke, depending on the degree of wokeness you decide to apply.
But by this definition, I’m not woke at all!
No, bigoted ignorant randos dont get to decide who is allowed in as migrants- the Government does. Especially as many of the MAGAs hire those 'illegals" for work on their farms and ranches- “but that’s okay.” 
There have been previous Xenophobic anti immigration movements- stopping Chineses from coming in, and in New York the Know Nothings working against the Irish. Both were wrong.
I wont fight that argument. I am not as left as you are. But I am 100% against racism and bigotry… Having worked on a project with Migrant farm workers, I know they are hardworking, honest and doing jobs most Americans wont do- but still need to be done.
…oh, absolutely.
Its just that…I’m woke too!
That’s my interpretation as well. And honestly, I can see where the OP is coming from even if I’m not sure wokeness, however it’s defined, had a significant impact on the election results. I’ll admit that I feel a bit alienated by the recent trend of announcing one’s pronouns either on your professional profile or on a pin you’re wearing on your shirt. It just feels weird to me, like I don’t belong.
…so I’m going to be loud and vocal about defending trans rights. Because worldwide we are seeing not only an attack from the alt-right, but a capitulation by many of the so-called left. I’ll point to Labour in the UK as a prime example of this. Both the right and the “left” support blatantly anti-trans policies.
My pronouns are he/him. And I’m not backing down on this.
Do you think I should tone it down? What is it do you think I should be doing?
Maybe I’m weird, but I don’t connect pronoun preferences directly to trans issues. If someone says they’re non-binary or go by they/them I don’t automatically think trans. Most trans people I know go by he/him or she/her. The only people I know who go by she/they or they/them are most definitely not trans. Or at least they don’t identify as trans so far as I can tell.
I was afraid my comment might start something. I don’t really have a lot invested in the pronoun debate. I think it’s weird for a man or woman to go out of their way to tell me their preferred pronouns, but I’m not going to shout at them for it or go vote for Trump because it hurts my feelings. I just find it odd.
You know why people are doing that? It’s called “inclusivity”. It is taking a step to help normalize the idea that not everyone goes by “default”. It’s an active choice to make stating pronouns more normal rather than “that weird thing those weird people do”.
You are unconformable. That to be expected. This is a new social paradigm we are trying to adapt to as a society.
One group is sticking it’s head in the sand and saying “This isn’t happening. This isn’t happening!”
Another group is saying, “Oh, these people are deserving of accommodation. It’s trivial to post my pronouns, but it makes it slightly less unusual for the ones that it matters to.”
Quite apart from the group who are doing it because it’s actual information for respectful interactions with them.
My pronouns are he/him. Nobody cares what’s in my pants.
Yeah, I get it, but thank you for giving me a lecture on inclusivity. I think maybe this is a good example of condescending attitudes people have mentioned.
…its not about the pronouns. This isn’t a debate about trans issues.
It’s whether or not you think I should tone it down.
What should the woke do?
Sorry if it felt that way. My point is that it feels uncomfortable, that’s why people do it. To make it less uncomfortable by exposure.
I’m not saying you have to do anything. As @Banquet_Bear points out, this thread is about what actions Democrats should be doing. Should we stop with pronouns? You yourself say it doesn’t affect your vote.
I’ve been using pronouns my whole life and certainly don’t intend on stopping now. I’m not sure what Democrats should do. As a voter I’m a never Trumper who abandoned the GOP completely in the aftermath of January 6 when it became clear they were going to ignore the attempt of a sitting president to use violence to to thwart the will of the American voter. Until the GOP repudiates and purges their rangs of MAGA I will continue to vote Democrat come hell or high water. The Democrats could nominate a ham salad sandwich for president and I will vote for it. I’m kind of an outlier when it comes to voting.
@Der_Trihs, I interpreted this as meaning you support open borders, and believe anyone who opposes immigration is a bigot. Am I correct, and if not, what were you trying to say?