Moderating: What the hell! That makes it look like Babale was saying that. I’ll remove and assume you F’d up, but that is a grievous use of a quote.
I’m removing the quote completely.
I can’t even remember what this was about… oh, I see I was talking about preferred pronouns. The idea that it’s transphobic not to believe TWAW and TMAM, even if you use preferred pronouns out of politeness. While on the other hand most people understand that it’s easy to slip up, so - especially if you are well-liked to begin with - you will easily be forgiven for accidentally getting someone’s pronouns wrong. I’m guessing you don’t disagree with the second part, so is the issue that you don’t think the first is a common belief among progressives?
No, your memory is in error. This is the statement you made
I asked, repeatedly for a cite for that claim. You still have not provided one.
For clarity, here is the whole post you made that claim in
The post immediately after that is me, quoting the section I wanted a cite for, and asking for a cite.
What I just described is what was referring to there. It isn’t going to change if you ask me again.
Argh! My sincere apologies to @Babale and @What_Exit - I should have be more careful and I will be more careful in the future.
Hmm. Well at least after all this time, my many requests for a cite, and all the drama- you have clarfiied that either what you typed was not what you meant or that you meant it referred only to the issue of pronouns. Which is it, please?
As to your most recent question-
I have addressed that earlier. I said, roughly, not being a telepath I cannot know what people believe unless they tell me. I can hear what they say and witness their actions. Thus, I cannot judge some one based on what they believe unless they tell me what they believe or I can reasonably deduce their beliefs from their actions.
As for what “progressives” believe, again the meaning of this term is nebulous at best and means different things to different people. Before I can attempt to figure out what a group believes or if that belief is common among them, I need a definition of “progressives”.
That’s fine. I think there could be an interesting discussion there, but I am done with this subject.
Not a chance. 
Got it. You ask me a question involving the term “progressives”. You just admitted you are either unwilling or unable to define a term you just used.
…according to the doctors and the scientists and the peer reviewed studies, yes.
I’d be a lot more convinced if that was a link to peer-reviewed research that argued that, rather than just a list of statistics that don’t tell us anything.
“Massive social engineering?” I don’t even know what that means. But we should be trying to fix it.
If I were advocating for a “target-based approach”, I would have outlined one.
I mean: people are dying in disproportionate numbers. Some people just want to make sure that the “right people” continue to die disproportionally instead of making things better for everyone.
Possibly relevant to this thread:
In particular, on immigration 63% of those surveyed supported deporting illegal immigrants who arrived in the last 4 years (vs 33% against), 87% to 10% support deporting illegal immigrants with criminal records, 55% to 42% support deporting all illegal immigrants (but 62% want to protect those brought to the US as children from deportation and only 34% oppose that; average consistency from poll takers 
).
On trans people, 49% think society has gone too far in accommodating them, 28% that it has reached a reasonable balance, 21% that it has not gone far enough. A majority of Democrats, let alone Americans as a whole, oppose trans women in women’s sports and giving puberty blockers to minors.
On DEI, 48% support ending diversity, equity and inclusion policies in schools, universities and government agencies, and 47% oppose ending them.
Those are most relevant to the thread, but there are other interesting questions like on foreign intervention.
And the deeper problems underlying it all: 68% of Americans think the economic system unfairly favours the wealthy, 72% think the government is mostly working to benefit itself and the elite, and only 9% think the political system isn’t broken, with 59% saying it has been broken for decades while 29% think it has only been broken for the last few years.
Just a warning to anyone like me curious to read this nytimes cite: it’s paywalled, but gives a misleading message that implies if you create an account you’ll be able to read the article. Account created, time wasted. (that’s ranting at NYT, not you DemonTree)
In terms of the results, I’d like to see the questions and who was polled, but also I’m not so surprised. e.g. The idea that society has “gone too far” on trans has been pushed aggressively as the number one boogieman by the right and social media. I’m sure a similar proportion of Americans would say that Socialism has gone too far.
A good follow up question would be what trans accommodations they had personally seen and/or been affected by. My guess is that 95% would be “Someone at work gave their pronouns”, or otherwise a big fat nothing.
How is this support for Trump’s policies?
That’s hardly surprising, and it happens automatically for any felony conviction.
I question if the 48 percent has a good idea what DEI policies actually are.
Electing pretend billionaire Trump and enabling his billionaire friends isn’t going to fix this.
A large number of Americans being bigots is not news. But stabbing their supporters in the back to appeal to the bigots is a tactic that has consistently failed the Democrats; it doesn’t win over the bigots and further alienates their base. It plays right into the “both sides are just a bad” rhetoric that is so effective at convincing people to not vote for the Democrats, while the bigots have no reason to vote for a demonstrably unreliable backstabbing Democrat when they can vote for a reliably pro-bigotry Republican instead.
Why do people have to have seen something personally or been affected by it to have an opinion on it? Are only those who have been personally affected by racism or sexism allowed to think they’re a problem? I don’t believe most of the BLM protestors had been personally affected by police violence, for example.
It’s not. That’s why I said these are the deeper issues. But AFAIK the DEMs are now the party of the status quo in America; when people are unhappy with the status quo, they vote for radicals.
I doubt even the 47% has that. I’m sure support would drop radically if the general public understood what DEI polices actually are.
True. Europe has genuine right-wing populist parties that support redistribution while being socially conservative, but the Republicans are merely larping as such. So I think voters will be disappointed.
Voting for Trump will hurt lots of people, which is the main thing right wingers want out of life. Self interest and personal survival are a distant second to that if they are a consideration at all; we saw them demonstrate that during the COVID pandemic. No amount of attempting to help the right wingers will make them like the Democrats better.
Because sometimes things are just myths.
Here in the UK if you had polled people on “Have crazy laws from Europe gone too far?” a majority of people would have answered in the affirmative, particularly in the lead-up to Brexit. Conservative media had engineered it thus.
But if you were to ask the follow-up question of simply “Such as?” you’d either get nothing back, or one of a handful of Telegraph-invented examples.
As it is with trans in the US. People haven’t actually been affected by that (as you’re tacitly conceding?) but I’d also wager they could not cite any specific law or provision.
That would surprise me. There’s not much to oppose in what’s actually happening.
Yeah. The typical result of people being shown that the Evil Wokeness they are complaining about isn’t actually happening is to just ignore that and keep on ranting.
“You can’t reason somebody out of a position they didn’t reason themselves in to” as the saying goes. And these people are not operating on facts or reason, just fantasy.
Like several of the inciting incidents for BLM.
Private Eye gave some pretty convincing examples. Admittedly that isn’t what the majority of Brexit voters were reading, but I think they were directionally correct. Unfortunately (and predictably) our own politicians were not remotely capable of doing a better job.
I think most people haven’t been personally effected, but they probably would cite something like the sports or treatment of children examples.
That’s because you are part of the general public here.
And? Even if that’s true (you don’t provide examples), there are literally centuries worth of thousands of incidents of the persecution of black people by the authorities.
Meanwhile, nearly everything the right believes is outright fantasy. And motivated by bigotry and malice, not centuries of persecution. You are pushing a false equivalency.