Normally, I don’t mind telling ANYBODY I’m an atheist, but my Grandmother, she’s old; she’s like ninetyone. If I told her I was an atheist she would freak-the-hell-out. I’m afraid that might acually be the one thing that pushed her over the edge into taking an early dirt nap.
I mean hell, I just want her to die a happy woman. I don’t want her to die all worried that I’m going to hell or something like that.
So, is it so wrong I tell her I’m a christian?
(I ask because my Mom says I should tell her. I think my mom’s way off base here, but what do I know.)
Well, do you have to tell her at all? Did she ask, or is your family “keeping score?” I would not mention it at all unless she asks you directly. If you do have to give an answer, tell her the truth, but add something like “…but you never know. I may change my mind as I figure out who I am and where I’m going with my life.” That way, you are honest but also respectful of her feelings. As for your family, I hope you make it clear to them that respect for one’s beliefs is a two way street.
Well, when you’re sitting at the dinner table and the old lady asks you to say grace; what do you say? “Oh, by the way grammy, I haven’t accept Jessus Christ as my saviour and I’m going to hell. Can ya’ pass the biscuits?”
Well if you were gay would you stay in the closet for your family or not?
really your choices here are to go through the motions or come clean. Either way you got to commit. I can’t speak for your family dynamics but all my family knows I don’t believe. I still bow my head durning their prayers though to show I respect their faith.
My grandmother’s 83 and she knows. I don’t think it’s as simple as lying- for me it’s just a personal thing in that I don’t like people to have the wrong ideas about what I think and I just couldn’t fake a thing like saying prayers.
Ah, I see. That is a difficult situation, to be put on the spot like that. I would politely decline, saying something like “I’m sorry, but I don’t feel comfortable saying grace. Would someone else like to say it?” Is your family of a conservative christian tradition where people get prayed over and them that doesn’t is going to hell?
I’m an Eagle scout. I know many many people in the scouting community as well as the community I live in who put a lot of thought into the patriotism they believe is required of an Eagle scout.
I am not patriotic. Not in the slightest. I have no inclination to plaster flags on the things I own nor do I put the flag in any special place in my heart as being something to die for. I apreciate what those have done for me (especially the world wars) and would probably have fought in them if I were alive at the time, but today I don’t see a massive force threatening freedom across the world (a few terrorists may shake things up but they’re not about to change the political ideology of the world).
Now that I’m out of scouting (nobody’s ever out of scouting, really… just in college for a few years then back to helping out) I still live every point of the scout law to the best that I can. The last point of the law is Reverence.
I know the many details behind flag care, display, and the ceremony around it. I participate in it as is expected because to refuse to lead in the pledge or to refuse to help in a flag raising as an Eagle scout just doesn’t sit right with many people. I am reverent and participate in ceremony when I’m in uniform and around members of the scouting community. On Monday I’ll be accepting a flag that was flown above the nation’s capitol from the local Elks club. I will thank them greatly, do the small speach about the importance of the flag as an icon then leave. The flag will go on a shelf in my closet along with the rest of my scouting memorbila.
Dishonest? In a way, yes. I’m pretending. Faking. But it makes a bunch of people who want to present me with a flag happy. If they want to give me a piece of cloth and feel good about it then fine, I’ll make them happy. It really just isn’t worth making a fuss about. If I did a bunch of older folks that spend the time and money to get this together would be horribly saddened. It just isn’t worth causing a problem over.
If it makes your grandma happy and you don’t feel too uncomfortable saying so just say “Yup, love Jesus, love God.” It’ll make her happy and (this is up to you, of course) it just isn’t worth making her last few years restless.
Can’t you just say a secular grace, or find away to conveniently arrive just after the blessing is over? If you know that it will upset her, I don’t see any reason to say anything. I’m honest about my beliefs for the most part but I haven’t told my grandmother the truth because it will do more harm than good in the long run.
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Yow. I’m glad to hear someone else say that. My son is in Cub Scouts, and I don’t feel all that comfortable with the patriotism, secular religion or quasi-flag worship. I feel pretty much like you, but fortunately haven’t been fingered. Yet. I respect the Scouting culture and history (I was a Scout, too), but I make sure I’m not in a position where my feelings are compromised and I would be participating in something I don’t necessarily believe in.
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I’m with Clayton_e on this one. What actual good would your taking a stand do anyone? It would distress and worry your grandmother very badly, over something she can’t change. IMO making an issue of your atheism would be more pointless and unkind than principled. It sounds to me like the most crucial factor is your love for her, so everything else can ride for the time she has left.
Religious differences don’t have to be paraded about. Exercising a modicum of tact can go a long way in expressing genuine values, in fact. A few of my distaff relatives are devout Baptists of the absolutely nicest, truly Christian sort. They don’t know, or ask, about my agnostic beliefs, and I don’t bring 'em up either. What would be the point? They believe Christ is the “one, true way”; I don’t so much reject that belief as accept it’s one possiblity among many. We just let the love and respect we have for one another suffice.
It’s like standing quietly while another nation’s national anthem is played, remembering Saturdays mean something different to Jews, booze and pork to Muslims, witch jokes to Wiccans, any meats to vegetarians, etc. Or refraining from cutting political comments, for that matter. Quietly not making an issue of things doesn’t mean agreement, just a willingness to accept those differences and go on.
I don’t offer prayers at our meals, not from lack of gratitude for life’s bounties, but because it’s one formal instance where my offerings would be too non-specific for them. And that’s fine. It violates nothing–for me–to ask them to say the prayer and I just bow my head respectfully. Frankly I think “honesty” is used far too often as an excuse to behave aggressively toward others. People, even close and loved relatives, don’t have to 1. know and 2. agree absolutely on every belief or opinion. Won’t happen anyway, so why deliberately focus on areas of disagreement rather than on good will?
All honor to ya, SHAKES, for wanting your grandmother to live out her remaining years happily and peacefully. I think that instinct of yours is the soundest one.
Personally I say don’t bring it up. If you are asked to say a prayer try and pass it to someone else or come up with one that you don’t feel bad about saying. If you are asked about your beliefs try to deflect but if they persist then I would tell the truth.
I have somewhat a similar problem. My Mom’s family is very Catholic, my Dad’s religion isn’t discussed but the assumption is that everyone is some variation of Christian. I don’t know what I am, near as I can figure my beliefs fall along the lines of agnostic with pagan tendencies but I don’t really tell my family that because I’d rather not listen to them go at it about me.
Do what you think you need to, but in the end be honest. It’s better than lying.
No, it’s not wrong because telling her the truth is going to do neither one of you a damn bit of good.
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I’m glad that you are more concerned with the effect the news would have on your grandmother than you are with asserting your “rights” or “individuality” or whatever - too many people have such an ingrained sense of their self-importance that they fail to notice the effect they have on others.
Personally, I find that kind of legalistic maneuvering more distasteful that outright lying. Sure, you can tell yourself you technically didn’t lie, but you tricked your grandmother into thinking what you wanted her to think anyway. Lie, or don’t, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
In general, yes, you should stick to your guns and tell the truth on principle. In this situation, however, I don’t see any harm in lying to spare the feelings of a dying relative, and I don’t see the point of blindly sticking to principle. Unless that relative was really mean to you, and then by all means tell the truth.
Tveblen, that’s the most thoughtful, rational and decent thing I’ve read in a long time. More power to ya. I think you and I are of the Miss Manners school of etiquette – that tact is much more important in society than 100% honesty all the time.
I just remain silent during Grace. So do my brothers. We’re not atheists, but we don’t choose to participate. But, we do sit there quietly while the others do it. It doesn’t hurt me to put my head down for a minute to appease my granny. I’d feel silly if I said the prayer, though.
I never bow my head for other people’s prayers. I DON’T respect their faith. I respect their RIGHT to that faith, but there’s no way I’m going to “pretend pray.” No way.
One of my dad’s favorite sayings, “Never volunteer information.” If she hasn’t outright asked you about your beliefs, then I say don’t bring it up.
If she asks you to say the grace, you can always respond that your not feeling terribly spiritual right now (you don’t have to say you never feel spiritual) and maybe someone else should say it. I’m Catholic, now and then (for whatever reason) sometimes I just don’t feel like saying grace, so that’s what I say. People seem to respect that.
Well, if my great-grandmother were on her deathbed and asked me to affirm my unwavering devotion to and love of Jesus and promise to marry a nice Christian boy, I’d do it… but only if I was REALLY sure she was going to die.
Some of these replies seem to be based on the idea that Gran is going to start pushin’ up daisies pretty soon now. That’s not an unreasonable guess, based on her age and apparent health, but who knows? She could have another ten years left in her, and keeping something you’re otherwise open about a secret from HER for that long could be difficult. If it were me on the spot, I’d do my best to give evasive answers and work around it, but I wouldn’t lie flat-out if asked.
Fortunately, two of my three cousins have openly rejected religion, so the pressure should be off me for a while. I’ve instructed my parents to state that I’m still a good Unitarian if they’re asked.
