eat all the pizzaslut & other gluten u like…just do so armed with a fair amt of warning & data 2 back it up, if u continue…i m not telling u what 2 do.
I do not quite kno how 2 qualify the conclusions u have drawn…which r slightly askew…& once more refer u 2 the experts…unless u like 2 watch people flounder in unqualified attempts 2 convey things…
& SINCE flounder is a fish, @ least were back on point…
Simple question: In your estimation, what percentage of humans are at risk of being seriously harmed by eating gluten?
OK, another approach…how many people do u kno whom r lactose intolerant?
That is a known sign of potential gluten( & bovine milk) enteropathy, &/or enzyme deficits related 2 nutrient deficits…nutrient malabsorption is often a sign of enteropathy, so is a vicious circle.
the villi in our intestines @ the tips release this enzyme & what impacts the tissue, impacts the tissue’s function very often, in this case, proper assimilation of lactose…
many people respond by eliminating the lactose, or taking enzymes, which treats only the symptoms…
there r HUNDREDS of known conditions caused by, or made worse by, gluten consumption.
HENCE… the book reccomendation i made earlier.
which also discusses non celiac gluten sensitivity, which still entails cutting out gluten…
Its not good 4 any1, really…so we r told.
Could you just answer the question? Best guess is good enough.
let me put this thru my internal computer…
FZZZZT.
It’s shorted out. Overuse.
I m not a statistician. If I were, i could prob answer u…i knew 1, tho. She was incredibly wise, also, lactose intolerant…
PLEASE have your local library order in the book, or id lend u mine, but i lent it out…if u will not contact the author/pub or, the other research facility, or the advocacy group i had listed…i m told the 1st 30 pages of the book go a long way towards explaining what i tried 2 convey but did a sorry job, of. U all seem a whole lot smarter than i m, so i m guessing u will get alot out of it. Its 2 bad we didnt kno about all this, yrs ago. THAT i can say would prob have made a heap of difference…in our cases. I m not beating up on gluten because its an easy target, in fact its not, @ all. Some1 asked me if it’s the crack of the food pyramid, not otherwise listed…i do not pretend 2 know how 2 answer that…nor, u…because i m only the messenger getting pumped full o holes…
Oh wait… Is that your answer? Gluten is bad for everyone.
Well, that’s utter bullshit. Obviously.
I dont guess or bet on sports, either…really, i m not much fun @ a party.
Its enuf an issue that there r efforts underway 2 come up with a pill 2 enable gluten 2 b digested; partly because of the level of noncompliance with not only testing, but once many persons r identified, cannot b bothered 2 comply with the diet…ive heard some people compare it 2 diabetes & carry on eating gluten here & there, believing it is a harmless indulgence. So any statistics i give u r bound 2 b skewed, anyway; is there some reason u do not just ASK the experts I referrenced? I m pretty feeble minded, so if u r persisting in laying out these challenges becuz u support making me look dumber, u r 2 late…my referrals stand, mangetout…again, with the best of intentions.
did u read ANY of my other responses, the entirety leading up 2 that 1 phrase, 4 that matter? It would appear, not.
WHAT percentage of people jump 2 conclusions, i wonder? number yourself among them…
If u cannot b bothered 2 follow up on reccomended resources, the least u can do is refrain from making unsupported attacks, but i guess my expectations r just way higher by percentage, than i care 2 admit..
I have killed several brain cells answering 2 this…that only leaves 2.
I’m not trying to make you look dumb - I’m trying to get you to state your case clearly, because up until now (and maybe still), it seems like you’re saying everyone is sufficiently at risk from eating gluten that the control of that risk is that the whole human race give it up altogether.
That’s a nonsense response to a small risk (albeit a risk with a serious impact when it does occur), consider:
When you cook your meals, there is a small, but measurably real risk that you will accidentally set yourself on fire. Setting yourself on fire is a truly horrible outcome that, given the choice, we would prefer to happen to nobody.
So, do we control this risk by ceasing all cooking of food?
Yes, but (and I’m not trying to be unkind), I may have missed some of their meaning, as your posts are unfortunately hard to parse. Sorry.
I’m not chasing after your sources for you, or buying books to try to find out what you mean. That’s not how a discussion or debate should work.
You made claims - you back 'em up.
[QUOTE=gluten free]
If u cannot b bothered 2 follow up on reccomended resources, the least u can do is refrain from making unsupported attacks, but i guess my expectations r just way higher by percentage, than i care 2 admit..
[/QUOTE]
If you can’t be bothered to give real cites (your biggest one so far is ‘read this book’ with a link to where we can buy the thing), and, more importantly, to write your posts out in real English instead of baby talk and l33t sp3ak bullshit then NO ONE IS GOING TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY. Why this seemingly simple point is beyond you is unclear, unless it needs to be written in code by a demented 4 year old who’s keyboard has only half it’s keys functional to get it through to you.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs on this board. Not invitations to go buy and read a book so that we are all on the same page. You claimed that gluten is a ‘neurotixin’. Assuming you meant it was a neurotoxin, you would need to back that up with real, peer reviewed science if you want to get any traction. Why? Well, because humans have been eating gluten for well over 10,000 years now…AND WE ARE STILL HERE. I know this is hard to grasp. Equally hard to grasp, seemingly, is that literally millions (possibly billions) of humans EAT GLUTEN EVERY DAY. And they don’t die. Nor do they have effects similar to other neurotoxins.
Granted, some people DO have adverse reactions. Just LIKE with peanut allergies. This isn’t to say that peanut allergies are the same thing as folks who have an intolerance to gluten. That’s why the word ‘like’ is being used. This would be similar, though pretty obviously less common, than the lactose intolerance you brought up earlier. Or shell fish allergies. Or any other food intolerance or allergy problems. The majority of humans (excepting the lactose thingy) don’t have the problem, however.
If you want to make the case that, contrary to apparent logic and reason, gluten really is a danger to both the Republic and pubic health then it’s on you to provide cites to do so…possibly in real, adult English using full sentences and a fully working keyboard with all of the alpha AND numeric keys working properly (there are 26 letters in the standard English keyboard, in case you didn’t realize this). Or not. Whatever floats thy boat.
-XT
We were overlooked for health issues & have lived with attempts 2 both discredit me & get me 2 shut up about it @ same time; this is the least of what has passed, am doing poorly currently, physically & am overwhelmed & in a great deal of physical pain & have other issues, so if u can b the least bit accomodating, i m not even asking 4 compassion, i would gr8ly appreci8 it, more than u know.
u do not visit the library? i never suggested u buy anything. ..u could, tho, i urged u 2 obtain a copy 4 urself, however that is accomplished…if i knew where 2 send it, that people would read it, i would don8 it myself..I requested our local library order it in & held an awareness display & set out reccomended reading & contacts.
Some1 @ the library pointed out 2 me that book was off the shelves (taken out 4 reading) very often & 1 person told them theyd been trying 2 take it out but had missed it several times. It is THE first reference I made, 2 u. I know nothing of copyright laws & even were i allowed 2 quote directly from the books noted, 1 is lent out & another not given back 2 us when it was borrowed, years ago by now..so I do not have them here, 2 cite, from, anyway. I barely can remember all we have had conveyed 2 us concerning this, & can not possibly cite relevant direct quotes from books we barely consulted ourselves, but for relevant portions discussed with the dr. These r tools for patients & healthcaregivers.
AS 4 the websites, they r representations of broader available info, all relevant…i gave these out here as requested & had the sites torn 2 shreds unwarranted…it is clear no matter what i say, it is wrong in your hands; the question is y?
We had the honor of having spoken with persons behind several
of the sites, after being referred there in desparation; but granted, we were not aware what applied @ the outset, we didnt have some1 suggest specific places; after one if us here was diagnosed as having issues with gluten, the test results had been overlooked for years by then & is amazing the dr even had ordered what he had…we were told things then which denied our experience & to ignore what happened which the advocates guided us 2 defend ourselves armed with the proper information…& to share it with the medical facility in order this would not happen 2 any1 else. we were told a family member was celiac & thats about it, @ first; for guidelines, on how ge ought eat, we found the national institutes of health, then they linked 2 other sites/people, from there…whom VOLUNTEERED information, time, energy, effort, 2 explain & 2 warn that there is misinformation many places, so 2 stick 2 reliable sources…of info, some of which ive shared.
More than 1 lab MAILED me information on this with my own test results; i do not know that these pamphlets r available, online & cannot transfer matter via metaphysical feats 2 u thru the air, if i have any here which if i do, r not readily available. MUCH of what ive shared we have LIVED; & had these persons affiliated with the sites/groups mentioned & drs, & author VERBALLY CONVEY in summary form, what is contained as mentioned; where u 2 can gain knowledge of this FOR YOURSELF, about yourself & those u care about, find out how it applies 2 u.
We discovered that out of neccessity, there has been an awareness campaign underway, so identification takes place & persons have a chance of being properly guided & informed.
1 dr had no idea about this & we were urged by an advocate 2 return there & share what was told, 2 us, because if we did not, my family member had his health being compromised by lack of proper advice & i learned from the NIH that his life was otherwise @ risk without certain testing & all this turned out 2 b correct…
The BEST I can do, is give u the information we have been led 2, ourselves & we were not particularly up 4 the odyssey that led us 2 this, either, but did not complain about it other than 2 lament that certain health complications were avoidable, if only we had known sooner & if people responded, sooner…which entails knowing there is a need 4 response…this is y i m sharing this with u, now. Because nobody knows everything & people learn in stages & thru experience.
Ive already tried 2 explain, that I can not properly cite things 4 u which I don’t know how, 2. Making fun of me 4 it is not going 2 help matters. Unless u r 1 of the places that overlooked health issues, attornies 4 same, a member or supporter of a gluten related endeavor or a other interests/ affiliate NOT interested in resolution of health complications otherwise requiring meds (i find it hard 2 believe this oppisition to prevention could even exist & am skeptical of such, but yet another point which has been made 2 me- that this information is not entirely appreciated nor acknowledged by many), I cannot otherwise imagine y u would b so opposed 2 my providing what u asked of me, & am accomodating u in the only way i m able.
research & testing.
www.recognizingceliacdisease.com
assembled research
www.glutenfreeworks.com (pub site, for above book)
we were directed 2 go hear CLEO LIBONATI RN BSN speak on this, after my family member was
diagnosed. I dd not yet know of my own issues with gluten & that a family member was found gluten intolerant years prior; he survived cancer of intestines, gallbladder, portions of other organs; gluten is cancer promoting.
I have purchased cards from this advocate, published author to hand out 2 people, explaining this & other facts relating 2 gluten.
****************
Dana Korns book, Living Gluten Free for Dummies
dummies - Learning Made Easy
Dana Korn’s ‘cheat sheet’ online version(BOOK SAMPLE)
Living Gluten-Free For Dummies Cheat Sheet | dummies
More Series:
The Essentials of Sharing a Kitchen with Gluten
The Essentials of Celiac Disease
The Essentials of Eating Gluten-Free
The Essentials of Gluten Sensitivity
Gluten-Free Cooking For Dummies Cheat Sheet
Celiac Disease For Dummies Cheat Sheet
Living Gluten-Free For Dummies Cheat Sheet (Australian Edition)
Living Gluten-Free For Dummies Cheat Sheet (UK Edition)
Gluten-Free Baking For Dummies Cheat Sheet
****************
National Institutes of Health NIDDK (national institute for Diabetes, Digestive & Kidney Diseases)
http://www2.niddk.nih.gov/
which directed us 2 this advocacy group:
which provided us with pamphlets to serve the awareness campaign we held in the community.
(ENTEROLAB also provides information in this format, so I was told by some1 I had referred, there.
****************
QUEST diagnostics
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/topics/gastroent/gastroent.html
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/brand/business/hla_immu_gen/test_menu.html
these r the best i can give 2 u.
please do not make fun of my lack of ability 2 effectively communicate.
::: Sigh:::
One last time.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
The claim that gluten is a neurotoxin is extraordinary.
A link to a website selling a book condemning gluten is not extraordinary proof.
A link to a paper published in a recognized peer reviewed scientific journal would be.
You have so far refused to provide any proof of your extraordinary claims.
The ball as they say is in your court.
PS once again in English not that crap you have been posting in.
U waste ur breath sighing. I m not going 2 apologize 4 my typing, again.
The book u describe as ‘condemning gluten’ - if u r referring 2 ‘recognizing celiac disease, signs, symptoms, associated disorders & complications’ by cleo libonati, rn bsn is NO LESS than a combined compilation of up to date research ‘papers’ laid out 4 ease of referrence & other scientifically valid guidelines & info u keep pressing me 2 provide u with; i also pointed out the PREVALENCE & that cutting it out prior 2 testing can hamper results.
The only pamphlet i did locate from ENTEROLAB & supported in several of other publications i CITED 2 u which u cannot b bothered 2 do more than google, has this 2 say as of 2005, anyway, of their research/findings:
"…far more widespread than once believed. Expert testing has revealed that as many as 1 in 3 are gluten sensitive ; among th symptomatic, that # jumps to every 1 in 2. Yet only a fraction are diagnosed using prevailing methods, for only 1 in 200 display intestinal damage severe enough to be seen on biopsy.
While it might make sense 2 screen every1 in America 4 gluten sensitivity (as is the practice elsewhere in the world), @ the very least those @ greater risk should b tested. These include, among others, people diagnosed with microscopic colitis (whom r almost always genetically & immunologically gluten sensitive), relatives of gluten sensitive individuals, and those with gastrointestinal symptoms or autoimmune disorders.
Further testing or observation regarding other sensitivities is also reccomended for gluten sensitive patients, who are more likely 2 react 2 other dietary proteins. In addition, over half are also sensitive 2 dietary yeast, a reaction associated with the development of Chrohn’s disease"
…‘up to 50% of gluten sensitive patients show signs of malabsorption- even when their small bowel biopsies appear normal or near-normal’
& : "@ the very least, those with certain risk factors should b tested, for they have a gr8r chance of developing the severe form of gluten sensitivity known as celiac sprue (recognizing celiac disease books author also explained 2 us this is a spectrum) as well as other syndromes. These risk factors include:
ORDER THE PAMPHLET if u wish 2 know. .i m in 2 much pain 2 typ it & 2 maligned 2 toler8 further emotional abuses here.
On the rear of ‘glutenfreeworks’ ©
dietary card, provided by the Libonatis with purchase of their book,
OR separately, is a SCIENTIFICALLY supported partial list of known associ8d health problems
AFFECTING ONE OR ALL parts of the body…20 out of the 100s they have SUPPORTED RESEARCH on, in the BOUND EDITION OF RESEARCH PAPERS i refer 2 here as a book…
.
the list starts out with cancer, hits acid reflux & ibs in the middle & ends with constipation.
It also has a host of stuff u would prob b surprised 2 learn r affiliations. …& am not listing it all out here, because m in 2 much pain & being ignored 4 what ive shared which is entirely accurate. Maybe where u come from its gr8 2 make light of people & discredit them without basis, but i m truly not up 4 it. if u wish 2 remain skeptical & ignorant & meanspirited & incredibly insensitive, i cannot help this but c this is not th place 4 me. HAVE a nice life.
dont. I provided RESOURCES 4 u.
NOT 4 me.
I already had been given access 2 them.
U r only denying urself, not doing a thing 2 me.
The chasing part was also entirely your derivation if what was said…i could not b more pointed if i tried…& tho, DID try. NO matter what u say 2 the contrary…
O WELL. ANOTHER FAILURE. no shock, here…
by the by…4 the person whom called www.celiaccentral.org ‘biased’ against gluten & accused them of catering 2 gluten free interests (um…), in their advertising choices; here is an advert that showed up on THIS ( Cecil’s ) website:
Sundown Naturals Vitamins Many Gluten-Free, Dairy-Free, and Vegetarian Formulas www.SundownNatu
oops got snipped @ the end…
my question being, do u propose the straight dope site is being 'biased' against gluten, because they've permitted an advertiser smart enough 2 promote gluten free, dairy free (no soy free?) formula vitamins, 2 rent advert space on their site? I think u need 2 rethink some of ur unwarranted criticisms...of the rocksolid, important info data i have so kindly shared with u, so help me quinoa if my name isnt gluten free...
PLEASE do not trip me on the way out nor slam the door in my rear, if u just limit 2 rude hand gestures & obscene faces behind my back, I will never know...thanx.
The Straight Dope doesn’t have control over what ads are shown. They’re provided by an adServer with very low machine intelligence and are often totally inappropriate on a site like this, but it’s too much of a financial hardship to forgo the ad-revenue as there are no adServers who vet their ads for stupidity. This is not a topic unknown to us. It’s discussed on many sites devoted to fighting ignorance, but currently there are no good solutions except to give up ad-revenue.
Your cites, however, unthinklingly and malignantly promote over the top claims about gluten intolerance, claims not backed up by science, claims you seek to promote and further, without the knowledge or will to properly research or back up, despite being informed that they fly in the face of current knowledge.
Yes, they laughed at Galileo, they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. Opposition is not proof of veracity.
How was my summation too difficult for you to clarify or expand on?
I can but conlude, provisionally due to your extraordinary lack of communication skills, that you’re knowlingly and deliberately just passing on every scrap of nonsense you’re fed by your environment with zero evaluation and critical examination between consumption and excretion.