Is my son's school behaving shamefully, or is it me?

In My Humble Opinion
1

As expats, we are pretty much limited to private, international schools for our son’s education. Long story short, when we got here we enrolled our son in School B, after School A rejected him.

In the long run, for reasons I will skip here, School A is a much better choice for our son and it has always been our intention to move him there for middle school (School A encouraged us to plan for that).

When we enrolled CairoSon in School B a year ago, we talked to his teacher and explained the situation in detail (why he got rejected, what kind of strengths School A wanted him to develop). We were very apologetic about “using” School B in this way and assured her we really appreciated her help. She was incredibly understanding about it. In fact, everything about my son’s experience at School B has been great.

Until yesterday. It is now time to complete the middle school application at School A (for fall of 2009), and one thing they ask for is a reference from applicants’ current school teacher.

Hey, no problem - his teacher had already told us she felt comfortable telling School A that CairoSon is ready to attend! So, we send her the reference form and figure no sweat.

Then I get this email from a school B administrator:

Huh? First, they aren’t losing him until fall of 2009 - IF he even gets in to School A (something which they are effectively attempting to sabotage, since we already know his teacher would say great things about him). Second, how do you figure that it is in the best interest of students if a school refuses to give references? (And the school required that all students run for office as part of their leadership module, too, so it isn’t like we sneakily let him run, knowing he was going to take off in 6 months. Besides which, expats leave ALL THE TIME. It’s an incredibly mobile population.)

IMHO, School B’s policy stinks of sour grapes. School A is more prestigious. If School B refused to give references to ANY other school, that I might be able to understand. But they are only refusing to give references if the school competes with them for students.

What do you think, Dopers? Is School B’s policy reasonable?

2

It’s one thing telling you duff information, but the overall policy seems fair enough given they are in competition with School A.

3

Perhaps, but this is not a for-profit business we are talking about … it is a school that claims to put the needs of children first.

Huh, this just in … my son came home from school and gave me a sealed envelope with the school letterhead, with my name on it in what I presume is the school administrator’s handwriting (it isn’t his teacher, I know hers). Inside was my note to his teacher along with the 2-page form, which was just a print-out from the internet (and not anything we’d ever need, since it isn’t like we have recourse to an alternate referee). There was no note or anything to accompany it.

This strikes me as … oh, never mind how it strikes me, I’m more interested in what others think than venting about my own reactions. If I get a dozen responses like Wallenstein’s I’ll know I’m being unreasonable.

4

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable, but from what you say, it seems like you initially got approval for a referral from the teacher rather than the administrator (headmaster, I guess?). I think the administrator rules in this situation, and perhaps you should have discussed it with him/her at the outset.

In any event, not to worry, can’t you just show the correspondence you got from school B, to school A. That will show school A that it’s not your fault that you can’t get a reference. If he’s been voted vice captain of the school and his grades and attitude are good, you should be OK, no?

5

I’m an ex-pat myself, although my kids are in regular German schools, as they are both German and American. I think the school is entirely wrong here, but the point is, if this is their policy, it must be something that school A knows about. I would try talking directly to CairoSon’s teacher, so as to avoid the filter of Policy, and then inform school A that school B refuses to allow his teacher to provide you with the requested reference. However, is there anything to prevent your forwarding a copy of the email you received, which not only states school B’s policy but confirms your son’s status as an involved and valued student?

Alternately – what about asking his teacher to write a non-specific reference for your son in the event that you were to leave the country and return home, as ex-pats are wont to do? Surely whatever you do with such a reference would then have nothing to do with the teacher or school B.

6

Thanks for all the comments so far. Yes, School A seems to be aware of School B’s policy (I was a little afraid they may not be, as School A just changed their requirements and this reference is a new thing). They just chuckled when I called them, and said “no problem, we understand, don’t worry about it.”

The only reason it is potentially an problem (not that I plan to fight it - I don’t) is that when CairoSon was rejected from School A, it was not for academic reasons. School A explicitly said “CairoSon would make too many demands on the teacher’s time, such that the teacher would not have enough time for the other students.”

That being the case, it seems important to present evidence that this is not the case. Only School B can do that.

I saw CairoSon’s teacher today and she raised the administrator’s note with me (I wasn’t going to say anything, because I think she’s caught in the middle and I don’t want her to suffer). It was clear she was dismayed and badly wanted to find a way to help CairoSon, but as I told her, I would not ask her to do anything that would jeopardize her employment. If School B says no references and she is a School B employee, she is stuck.

Wait a minute! Heh heh heh, shantih, that is a GREAT idea! We have a “plan C” school back in the states - perhaps I can have School B fill out a reference addressed to them!!! Brilliant.

7

And the school B administrator won’t see through that? Good luck with that option, I think you’ll have a hard time convincing teacher B to do it.

Anyway, it seems your kid is doing fine, and school A knows the score. I don’t know what you mean by your son being too demanding on the teachers’ time. When I hear that I automatically think of a behaviour disorder, but it wouldn’t seem so in your case.

8

YMMV but not for profit expat schools is not the same as non-profit or at least not the same as just covering costs. expat schools are generally a very profitable business run under the not for profit moniker.

9

Seems to me it might be useful to get a recommendation from the school he was attending previous to school B. Although it there might be a little delay; IIRC the other school was in another country.

10

Profit or none, to do something that hurts a child’s education is a pretty lame thing to do.

11

The School B administrator might have her doubts. However, Teacher B wants to find a way to help us. In addition, I actually WILL apply to the Plan C school (I’m not leaving my son at this school for middle school so Plan C school will become a real option if admission to School A seems shaky). Finally, what is School B going to say if I legitimately ask for a reference for another school - “we won’t fill out this reference because we don’t believe you are actually applying?”

zagloba - School A does have confidential references already from his 3rd and 4th grade teachers in Egypt. I’m told they were quite positive. His rejection last year from School A was probably a mistake, but that’s history now.

Long, long, long story, and one that I doubt I could ever tell properly. In this thread, though, I’m not sure those details matter. In this thread, I want to know other posters’ opinions on whether the position of School B, that they will not provide references for students applying to other schools in the vicinity, is fair to students. The only relevant points here are that school A made that characterization over a year ago, and his teacher at School B would, if permitted, gladly tell them that she did NOT find this to be the case at all. In other words, because of my son’s particular situation, we might really benefit from a School B reference, perhaps more so than other families.

12

Well, were I the administrator (whom I assume must sign off on the recommendation, otherwise what is all the fuss about in the first place?) then I would say “Sure! I’ll fill out the recommendation and send it directly to school C myself, under a confidential stamp”.

Now you have to try to get a confidential document back from school C to send to school A. Trouble again.

13

Yeah, to me the notion of letters of reference to students is completely alien (in Spain those aren’t required for uiversities or military academies either, to give you a reference point), but I think the administrator’s letter could count as a sort’a reference. Of course, brighten up your halo and dust your wings before handing a copy over to School A!

14

Can you ask your son’s teacher to give you a “Progress Report” that could then be used as a reference. it wouldn’t be Schoool A’s form, however, it may give them the information they were looking for to make their decision.

StG

15

I was also thinking about asking the teacher for a general letter. You could say that you’re thinking of applying to a few boarding schools, maybe this year or maybe next year. The letter wouldn’t be private in that case (ie, you’d be able to read it) but it’s better than nothing.

I went to prep school in the US, I’ve seen many kids go to “the competition” and I have never heard of this policy.

16

He just got a report card with teacher comments and it is excellent. Plus he did get elected school vice captain. So while School A is going to be looking for evidence of behavioral issues, it is hard to see how they will find any.

I am not overly worried about how this policy will affect my kid. What I am, however, is disillusioned at the school. They have a lot of rhetoric about how they are there to meet kids’ needs, and this policy seems counter to that.

My reason for posting was not to seek solutions to a problem that hopefully doesn’t really exist (although I am very grateful for everyone’s attempts to help, thank you all) but to say “wait a minute - am I right in thinking these guys are behaving badly, or am I the one whose perspective is off?”

So after the posts above, I’m not really sure - there isn’t a strong consensus or a lot of commentary - but I’d probably lean toward “meh, they are behaving badly but so it goes.”

17

For what it’s worth, I don’t think School B is behaving that badly. School A is in competition with them for students, and so they’re not going to want to encourage their students to move to School A. It makes sense that they’d make it as hard as possible for students to transfer to their rivals.

18

Well, how exactly are they not meeting your kid’s needs? I understand how they’re not meeting your wants, obviously, but I’m not seeing why he needs to transfer schools. After all, if they weren’t meeting his academic or social needs, you presumably wouldn’t have enrolled him in the first place. But you did enroll him there, and they’ve spent a lot of time and energy making sure he got what he needed, which is more than School A was willing to do for him. If I had to choose which of these schools had my kid’s best interests at heart, based on the information in your OP, I’d go with School B every damn time.

And no, I don’t think School B is behaving badly. They’re providing emotional/social resources other schools aren’t willing to provide. Why on earth would you expect them to make extra effort to help people who have taken advantage of those extra resources then take their tuition money to the competition?

19

The school doesn’t follow an American curriculum or schedule, which is a hassle for us as Americans and will make my son’s adjustment harder if we go back to the US any time soon. Further, it does not have a good reputation for academics and so my son will find it harder to get into a top university as a graduate of that school. I apologize if that sounds elitist - I kinda hate myself for typing it. But let’s face it, every parent wants the best for their kid, and my son dreams of going to MIT and becoming a physicist. Not to say he won’t change his mind, but I’d like to keep his options open. If he graduations from School A, he is likely to have far more choices for college than if he graduates from School B.

We had virtually no choice. It’s not like you can enroll your kid anywhere as a foreigner. The other schools we looked at were either full in his grade, or heartbreakingly poor quality (my son literally has more books in his bedroom than the entire library of one school he could have enrolled him).

Me too, for the lower grades and if I didn’t have to worry about the future. School B has been wonderful and I have been very vocal in the expat community here singing its praises.

Because I don’t think schools should be operating on an “all we care about is profit” model. I believe they have a higher goal, which is to serve children. Nor is it much in the way of extra effort - the form was very brief, and they would have filled it out if we were moving. Also, we didn’t “take advantage of those resources” in any sleazy way. We paid a huge sum of money for them.

I’m kind of in a hurry here so if I sound annoyed, I apologize. I appreciate hearing a different point of view and you’ve taken the time to explain your thoughts in direct response to what I was asking - I am taking your observations to heart even if it doesn’t sound like it.

If anyone else is thinking of posting, I should mention that I’m about to leave on a hideously long journey and probably won’t post in this thread any more - however, additional comments are welcome and I’ll certainly read posts after this one if there are any.

20

First of all, I think you are correct and School B is being self-protectionist and stupid. The school should retain students by making them want to stay there, not by instituting a lockdown on references to “trap” students in their clutches. Honestly, that policy should hurt them far more than help them. I wouldn’t put my (non-existent) child in that school if I knew that was the policy. It makes them look petty and weak.

Second, you don’t say explicitly, but I’m under the impression that your son is hovering somewhere around the 7th Grade. Take a deep breath, step back, and look at the situation with a new perspective. 7th Grade is a non-issue. Even if he’s already in High School, MIT is not going to reject your son because he went to School B instead of School A. Admissions are not perfect and tons of qualified students have to be turned away each year, but minor differences in which school someone went to isn’t going to be a deal-breaker. Furthermore, simply having gone to international schools at all already puts your son at an admissions advantage. California? New York? Yawn. Oh! You went to school in Indonesia! Colleges eat that shit up.

Third, your son doesn’t have to to go MIT to be a physicist.