Tassey, in another thread, says:
Well, you got what you asked for, another thread. I am not a murderer, a rapist, or a child molester. I enjoy pornography. I’d imagine that a good portion of the regulars on this MB are the same way.
“Buffalo Bills? Oh, yeah. The guys that always snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.” --WallyM7
I personally believe (this is MY OPINION only. Don’t ask me to cite sources! My source is my own experience and observations.) that pornography is in the same category as alcohol and gambling. For some people it’s a fun way to pass the time, end of story. For others, it’s a path to destruction. I believe some people have “addictive” personalities that can’t handle ANY of the above.
As far as pornography specifically, I take issue with this quote:
Not to be simplistic, but to they all admit using any other items? Cigarettes? Violent Movies? Strip Clubs? I don’t believe pornography CAUSES violence, but in a person who is prone to violent behavior, it can bring that behavior out.
Because I work in the computer industry, and in most companies I’ve worked in there is a problem with employees surfing smut sites, I wonder if I could conclude that most computer professionals are potential rapists and murderers? (based on their propensity for viewing porn)
My experience with sex in general and pornography is that there are some very vague lines between pleasure and pain, and many porns are focused on a male dominant/hair grabbing/rough acting display. To some people that’s a turn on, to others it turns into a genuine urge.
Love is like popsicles…you get too much you get too high.
Not enough and you’re gonna die…
Click here for some GOOD news for a change Zettecity
While Pornography itself may not be evil, I do not enjoy it.
I think the business is evil.
The times I have seen a pornography film I have been disturbed by them.
Not because sex disturbs me, but because I am reminded that these very young women are somebody’s daughters.
It is often clear on their faces that they do not enjoy what they are doing. In the instances where this is not the case, I am equally disturbed by how hardened these young women have become.
Many must not know (or care) about the difference between sex or love. I imagine that they must have reached a desperate point in their lives to be willing to do these things, and am sadddened that a whole industry has cropped up to take advantage of this desperation.
I just can’t help but feel that these women (and perhaps men) are being used badly.
That being said, I’m pretty open minded and have no inherent objection to the concept pornography, just how it’s created.
For those that enjoy the work and are in the business willingly and knowingly I have no objection.
Unfortunately I think that those are in the minority, and most are aspiring actresses, or young desperate girls who are being misled, perhaps with drugs, or unrealistic visions of wealth and stardom.
For most, a porn film means an end to any crdible film career.
Often wrong… NEVER in doubt
Scylla, I disagree. Granted there are portions of the pornograhy business that are evil. But not the entire business as a whole. Many people enjoy a good dose of pornography.
I know girls that have done porn movies. Most of my friends and my own sister are exotic dancers. I can tell you first hand, these girls are not mindless, desparate, unwilling little pinheads being used by the business. They enjoy what they do. They enjoy the lifestyle, the money, and the chance at a larger opportunity, even if a small one. I think you underestimate a woman by saying if she has sex for a living she must not know the difference between love and sex. I think she would know the difference better than most.
Always be ready to speak your mind and a base man will avoid you.
-William Blake
There’s acres of difference between an exotic dancer and a porn actress. And there is also a great deal of difference between a porn actress and a prostitute. For that matter, there’s a world of difference between a $1,000 per night Heidi Fleiss girl and a $25 per trick street girl.
I think any discussion which lumps all these women in together will lack some precision.
As to pornography… while I accept that there are women who find it a rewarding career… I can’t help but believe most do not. I believe that they get into it because it’s more moeny than they can make doing anything else, for (relatively) less effort. Undoubtedly financial desparation plays a part.
But that can’t be all… because I also know there are other women who, no matter how desparate their straits became, would not consider doing a porn film.
I am willing to bet that the incidence of drug dependence is higher amongst porn stars than the general public, or amongst the legitimate film industry.
I think most porn is disturbing. Admittedly, when I was fifteen and watching my first X-flick, it was exciting. But now… now it’s just sad. I don’t have a wide range of experience here; maybe there are plenty of great skin flicks that I just don’t know about. But from my experience, it’s not a positive, uplifting feeling to watch porn.
And in any case, I would suggest that participation has observation beat by a long shot! 
Well, it’s certainly true that there is exploitation in the porn industry but it’s hardly unique in that. Chicken factory workers are exploited too but nobody (except the PETA folks) says we should ban them. The issue here should be what are the socio-cultural-economic factors that drive women to think their only hope for the future involves taking their clothes off on camera.
(Of course, it’s also true that there are women in porn who love what they do, and more power to them.)
I did my undergraduate degree in politics with an emphasis on obscenity law, so I’ve done a lot of reading on the subject. Put simply there is very little evidence of any causal connection between pornography and violent crime. A few laboratory studies have purported to show that men’s attitudes toward women are worse after watching pornography, but that certainly doesn’t demonstrate that these men are actually going to go out and attack women, and in any case there are just as many laboratory studies showing the exact opposite (and yes, I do have references).
Field studies on the other hand, examining the links between availability of porn in certain areas and crime rates, gender inequality etc. in those areas, have often found an inverse relationship between the two.
It is true that child molesters and serial rapists tend to have a high usage of violent pornography but, as Libby noted, that could easily just be the symptom rather than the cause: they buy porn because they get off on seeing women/children sexually abused, not vice versa.
And finally, yes, it may be true that exposure to violent porn can push an already unstable person with a predisposition to sexual assault over the edge - there is some evidence to support this. But, most porn isn’t violent, most people aren’t predisposed to assault, and suggesting that ALL porn is dangerous because of this small minority is like saying that ALL heavy metal is dangerous just because some disturbed kid shot himself after listening to an Ozzy Osborne song called “Suicide Solution.”
Porn isn’t evil, (some) people are evil, basically.
Psycat:
I think the exotic dancing environment is somewhat different (but I may very well be wrong.)
An exotic dancer is essentially a skilled performer. The dancer is in control. The money is good. There is usually no coercian through drugs, or the promises of a chickenhawk. Usually there are no delusions that it is the first step to superstardom.
I have no problem with the concept of pornography or with your friends being engaged in the activity of creating it, as long as they do so with their eyes open.
I think I’m correct to say that the vast majority of the porn industry does not work that way, and that many of the young women in it are victimized.
There have been several excellent exposes on the subject of the porn industry over the years, and several former porn stars have spoken out against it, describing in detail how young women are deliberately used, used hard, used badly, and used up. They are then discarded.
In most, but not all cases it is a deliberate con perpetrated on naive and desperate young woman. The carrots of fame, and wealth and acceptance are dangled when there is no possibilty or intention of fulfillment.
I would probably enjoy a creative and professional erotic film were it not for the industry that creates them.
Your friends aside, Would you agree that Pornography is potentially a nasty and dangerous business for a naive young girl?
I’m glad that your friends are able to navigate those dangers succesfully.
I make no moral judgement on pornography itself or those who participate. I’m a pretty healthy and active youngish male.
The fact is that a LOT of woman get HURT, and unfortunately sometimes only lip service is paid to the age of the young women involved, as recent scandals show.
Do these girls (guys too, who are led into the gay-film industry,) really know what they are getting into. Can they defend themselves ?
Sorry to pontificate, but I feel pretty strongly that a majority of the porn industry survives by a deliberate preying upon relatively defenseless and desperate women.
I fully realize that this is not always the case, just the majority.
Often wrong… NEVER in doubt
There are a few feminists currently arguing that porn empowers women.
In the porn industry, the women are often the controlling factors. They get paid far more than the men do, and have much more ability to dictate contracts and working conditions. It’s the men that are generally treated like animals.
FIRST THOUGHT:
It sounds to me like all of you would be more likely to watch amateur porn than the professional stuff? Have any of you watched any of that? (I’ve only seen the stills, but they do turn me on, I must say. If I were to do something like that, I’d have to lose this big stomach of mine first! :o)
So, is ALL porn evil, or is it just the professional stuff? Or is none of it evil, which is my view.
Things aren’t evil, it’s how they are used. If someone uses a pencil to stab out your eye, is it the pencil or is it the person that is evil? If he got the idea from a movie, is the movie evil, or, again, is it the person? What if he got the idea from a book? What if he got it from the Bible (“An eye for an eye…”)?
Which is evil, the tool, the inspiration or the person?
SECOND THOUGHT:
There’s the old quote, “I can’t define pornography, but I know it when I see it.” Do any of you remember the video store in Utah, run by Mormons (Naturally!) who excised all the nude scenes from Titanic? So how do y’all define it? Does it have to be explicit? Does it have to be “hard” or “soft”? (Even the “soft” kind can be, uhm… inspiring, when it’s done right. ;))
Me, I don’t think Titanic was pornographic, but Debbie Does Dallas certainly was! And I enjoyed both movies, for different reasons.
>< DARWIN >
__L___L
Yes,I believe people can get hooked on pornography,and that would be “evil”.Though they dont always go out and commit crimes,they wish they Weren’t hooked on it.
Is porno evil?
Only if it’s done right.
Dr. J
DrainBead, thanks for starting this thread. I was going to do it sometime within the next few days, but I wanted to gather all my information first. I have yet to do that, but I will share some preliminary information.
I get a great deal of my information firsthand; that is, the impetus for my ex-husband’s adultery was pornography. He had been addicted to porn before we met, but voluntarily “quit”. Towards the end of our marriage, he had started using it again. Everyone that knows my ex, knows that he was not the kind of person to commit adultery. Even HE says he never thought he would do something like that. I bring that up because it wasn’t like he was out cruising the bars every weekend; he wasn’t an alcoholic or drug user.
What makes pornography so damaging is the element of fantasy. Fantasy is not necessarily wrong, but combined w/porn it’s insidious and dangerous.
For those who have ever used porn, do you ever have flashes of a porn scene go through your mind? I mean, you are at work or possibly even in church and all of a sudden, out of the blue, a porn scene will flash into your mind. From talking to men and reading on this subject, I have found out that when this happens the mind will take you off on your little fantasy. My friends husband said that he could literally be in the middle of a conversation and this would happen to him. The really freaky part was that his mind would be off in another direction, but he would still be holding the conversation. As a result, he would not be able to remember anything of what he said in the conversation, but his wife would know differently.
I have had the same exact thing happen to me numerous times, since my ex-husband left me. We will have a long conversation about a particular subject and he LITERALLY could not remember having said the things that he did. It boggles the mind when you have to deal w/someone like that.
Getting back to the element of fantasy, what happens is that in the porn fantasy, the woman is perfectly proportioned, perfect breasts, perfect everything and she does exactly what you want, when you want it, as many times as you want. The most important element of the fantasy is that the fantasy does not talk back. The fantasy does not have a mind of her own. The more time that is spent in that fantasy world, the more it seeps into reality. Your subconscious mind cannot understand why everything else in your life is not perfect and exactly the way you want it. People that are addicted to porn are controlling perfectionists.
The other element is that the porn level cannot truly be satisfied. And this is where it COULD POSSIBLY turn into criminally or morally wrong behavior. When magazines no longer satisfy, it goes to soft porn on the internet. When that doesn’t satisfy, it goes to soft porn movies, then to hard core, then to live sex shows, then to prostitutes… etc. Since there is a great deal of kiddie porn and porn that portrays rape, those are the things that will be an attraction for some people who are addicted.
There is a great deal more to be said on this subject, but I have to track down my info and statistics. I’ll post more later.
Yer a pervert! I mean, how could you like that Titanic drivel?!?!?
The argument could be made that for many, pornography is a healthy release that, if not an option, might manifest itself in ways more unhealthy.
I think saying pornography is evil is like saying that computers are evil. Sure, some people have used omputers to do some evil things, but most do not.
Ul;timately, MAN is either evil or good, not his pastimes or creations.
Yer pal,
Satan
I wanted to clarify one thing before being pummeled mercilessly. I said that people addicted to porn are controlling perfectionists. This is true, but it does (in fact) manifest itself in different ways. My friend’s husband was passive agressive and tended to internalize. My ex-husband is very much a perfectionist and WANTED to be controlling. It ate him up inside that he could not control me.
Tassey, please do post your statistics. I’d love to see them.
Bricker, how do you know they’re $25/trick?
Zette, I agree with you 100%- in some people, it is incredibly destructive, just like alcolhol. The problem is, people with addictions don’t realize they are prone to them until it is often too late.
Satan, you mean to tell me that Leonardo did nothing for you?
**
Really now. Well, I guess that pornography affects all people exactly as it did your husband! What with all of us being the same and all…
**
Hmm… Did you make him quit? Maybe you made him feel guilty about something that he felt was not wrong, and he did it out of a sense of obligation to your wishes. Which might have led him to miss it, and start to resent you for making him quit something. It is certainly possible… And yes, this (and similar) have happened before.
**
Apparently, everyone was wrong.
**
None of which makes an adulterer. What makes an adulterer is wanting to stick your penis (or have a penis stuck in you) by someone who is not your wife while you are married.
And, if we continue along my possible explanation above, maybe what drove him to do this was not porno, but the resentment he felt for you subconsciously by the way you made him feel about it being taken away? It’s very possible, you know.
**
That’s a bold and sweeping statement. Backed up with some facts, I assume? Or just a cheating spouse and the fact that spiritually, you find it repugnant?
You then give a bunch of things that people “have” to feel when they indulge in pornography. All I will say is that not everyone feels that way. Some use it, and that’s it. Not everyone, I state again, reacts to tyhis the same way. In fact, I’d wager that your husband and friends reactions is quite the minority.
BZZT! Slippery Slope. What it can turn into is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Please let’s try to not let that happen again, thanks.
Yer pal,
Satan
And you blame this on the porn? Maybe his control-freak nature was the reason he became addicted to porn to begin with. As you say, you didn’t know him then.
It’s not unusual at all for men who are control freaks to be unfaithful, Tassey. It’s also, unfortunately, not that unusual for men who “would never cheat” to do so. There are a lot of women out there who can confirm this. I am really sorry he turned out to be such a jerk but it seems incredibly simplistic to blame it on the porn.
I don’t mean to nitpick, but the quote (from Justice Potter Stewart) was in reference to obscenity, not pornography. There is a significant legal difference.
-Melin
Far be it from me to not post a cite when needed.
See, e.g., http://www.worldsexguide.org/New-Orleans.txt.html (“Blowjobs go for $20, straight sex for $30,” describing street hookers in New Orleans.) So I posted an average.
(How’s that for lucky, finding a cite to back up my off-the-wall assertion!)