[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
Ignorance fought! I didn’t even know it was a word…
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the acknowledgement, although I admit I wasn’t sure it was a word either until your post made me look it up.
So, fighting ignorance can be done via a boomerang effect (or something like that).
Now, if you can tell what “appicable” meant in my original post, we’ll call it even. 
[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
He drove from Montreal Canada, to New York City, surely driving from Montreal, Canada, to Denver is doable for him, if it really was “life or death”?
[/QUOTE]
According to Google it would atke about a full day longer of straight driving to get to Denver versus New York City. How is that necessarily faster? I am sure he thought, get int the US, go to the nearest big city and turn myself in. I don’t know what the full stroy is, but to criticize him for not driving to Denver sesms silly.
[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
He drove from Montreal Canada, to New York City, surely driving from Montreal, Canada, to Denver is doable for him, if it really was “life or death”?
[/QUOTE]
He never had the opportunity to head to Denver. Though I doubt he would have attempted to drive there, since that is a long friggin way from NY by car. I think his only thoughts were to get back into the US.
To answer the earlier question, I imagine he fled Italy before they had a chance to quarantine him there. He was terrified that he’d never make it back.
Coming back to say, according to Yahoo (not the most reliable, but the first that would do an “in general” path without a precise address) the distance from Montreal Canada, to Denver Colorado is roughly 1839.3 miles and 28 hours 20 minutes, while the drive from Montreal Canada to New York City New York is approximately 378.7 miles and approximately 5 hours 49 minutes. If done in shifts, they could have gone straight there.
ETA: See above.
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
He never had the opportunity to head to Denver. Though I doubt he would have attempted to drive there, since that is a long friggin way from NY by car. I think his only thoughts were to get back into the US.
<snip>
[/QUOTE]
ETA2: Corrected the milage, it defaulted to my location and I didn’t catch it. I had two pages up, one for each trip, and didn’t know it’d switch both pages to the same inquiry. When I hit back, it put in my location on the Denver leg, instead of Montreal Canada. sigh
Adding, again, if he really was that afraid, then a drive of that length would be worth it. Going to New York, where he knew he’d have a delay longer than just driving there, proves he wasn’t that worried to my mind.
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
He never had the opportunity to head to Denver. Though I doubt he would have attempted to drive there, since that is a long friggin way from NY by car. I think his only thoughts were to get back into the US.
To answer the earlier question,** I imagine he fled Italy before they had a chance to quarantine him there. He was terrified that he’d never make it back**.
[/QUOTE]
Given that the CDC more than likely educated him on the possible test results and quarantine scenarios before he left (regardless of any other possible/probably failings on their part), all the more reason he should never have left the country in the first place.
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting]
Given that the CDC more than likely educated him on the possible test results and quarantine scenarios before he left (regardless of any other possible/probably failings on their part), all the more reason he should never have left the country in the first place.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly! He should have honeymooned (with face mask) at the Grand Canyon, not overseas. At least that way, if he got bad news he could rush to “the only city in the world that has the treatment method that can save his life” much more easily, and with less risk to many others, in MULTIPLE nations! :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
Read the reports again. When he left for Europe, he was under the impression that he had a completely different strain of the disease. While there, they informed him that it was a more serious strain.
[/QUOTE]
I worked in a place where an employee tested positive for TB and infected another coworker with TB simply by riding in a car with him. This was before the antibiotic resistant strains appeared, BTW. As soon as the first employee came up positive, his doctor prohibited him from working, lest he expose others to the disease, the Health Dept. also sent people to where we worked to educate us on the disease. “TB Toby” should have known not to travel! Immigrants from countries where TB is common are given antibiotics as a matter of course, without being tested for the disease!
In short, I can’t for a moment, buy his claims that he didn’t know he shouldn’t go anywhere. Given that he knew there was a chance he could have an anti-biotic resistant strain, I cannot fathom for the life of me, why he’d even want to leave the country, until it was nailed down exactly what strain he had.
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
TB is one sturdy mother, though. As a nurse, I have always treated r/o TB pts with meticulous isolation practices. The thought of XDR-TB makes me blench. The thought of XDR-TB in a small confined, drier than desert air compartment for hours on end does not equate to a safe environment for anyone.
[/QUOTE]
Quiditty says it’s no big deal, and she’s very, very smart.
ETA:
[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
Exactly! He should have honeymooned (with face mask) at the Grand Canyon, not overseas. At least that way, if he got bad news he could rush to “the only city in the world that has the treatment method that can save his life” much more easily, and with less risk to many others, in MULTIPLE nations! :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
I doubt it. I don’t know what the policy is for various strains of TB, but I wouldn’t be so certain that they would have spoken about quarantine prior to the discovery that he held the most resistant type of TB there is.
Also, I think its wrong to assume that his goal was to arrive in Denver as soon as humanly possible. I think his goal was to arrive in the US before the window of opportunity closed, and he found himself under armed guard in Europe.
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
I worked in a place where an employee tested positive for TB and infected another coworker with TB simply by riding in a car with him. This was before the antibiotic resistant strains appeared, BTW. As soon as the first employee came up positive, his doctor prohibited him from working, lest he expose others to the disease, the Health Dept. also sent people to where we worked to educate us on the disease. “TB Toby” should have known not to travel! Immigrants from countries where TB is common are given antibiotics as a matter of course, without being tested for the disease!
In short, I can’t for a moment, buy his claims that he didn’t know he shouldn’t go anywhere. Given that he knew there was a chance he could have an anti-biotic resistant strain, I cannot fathom for the life of me, why he’d even want to leave the country, until it was nailed down exactly what strain he had.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t really disagree with any of that.
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
I doubt it. I don’t know what the policy is for various strains of TB, but I wouldn’t be so certain that they would have spoken about quarantine prior to the discovery that he held the most resistant type of TB there is.
Also, I think its wrong to assume that his goal was to arrive in Denver as soon as humanly possible. I think his goal was to arrive in the US before the window of opportunity closed, and he found himself under armed guard in Europe.
[/QUOTE]
Obviously you haven’t read this thread for comprehension then. More than one person has stated that with normal TB (BEFORE THE RESISTANT STRAINS EXISTED, mind) people were told not to travel outside of their home. Go on, go read and learn. And, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either he was in a blind panic, trying to save his own life by getting treatment in Denver, and therefore deserves a pass, or he deliberately disregarded the injunctions he was given, and broke the law by sneaking into the country, thus revealing himself to be an entitled asshat with no regard for the health of others.
ETA: On seeing your most recent post, if that is the case, why are you taking such a stance?
[QUOTE=brazil84]
I suppose that the CDC should have a program to compensate people who have to cancel their travel plans due to being told not to fly.
[/QUOTE]
Airlines will sometimes give you credit to use toward future flights in a situation where someone has health problems and can’t travel, even if the original ticket was non-refundable.
[QUOTE=Anne Neville]
Airlines will sometimes give you credit to use toward future flights in a situation where someone has health problems and can’t travel, even if the original ticket was non-refundable.
[/QUOTE]
Not to mention the fact that he knew he had some form of TB back in January. This wasn’t a last minute thing thrown on him, at least not the fact that he had TB. It takes a while to run the test to find out if he had XDR-TB, and he knew this. He knew he shouldn’t travel out of the country until those tests came back, but he did it anyway.
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy]
But there’s a logical disconnect here:
He thought he could go to Europe because he felt fine, wasn’t showing any symptoms; and yet
He HAD to fly back immediately because he had the dread XDR TB (however quiescent at the moment) and he was gonna DIE if he didn’t get back for treatment right away; but
He got past border control because he looked and felt just fine, sir, perfectly healthy, no problemo.
And the taping of the alleged “you’re okay” discussion doesn’t pass the smell test. It smacks too much of setting up a defense for planned misconduct.
On preview: What Zabali_Clawbane said.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on the taping. Why tape the conversation? Why would your father tape it? It does smack of trying to set up a case (either against someone else or to cover your own ass).
I also agree with those who say he was an ass to have gone to Italy in the first place–even if he had been told his risk of being contagious was very small and likely only applicable to someone with a compromised immune system (I can’t imagine a doctor telling him he had absolutely no risk of being contagious). You don’t know who you’ll be sitting next to and how healthy their immune systems are. More importantly, however small the risk was, it’s not something you knowingly subject people to without their consent.
As to whether he should have flown back or not, my opinion is no way! Yes, it sucks for him to be in Italy if the best treatment option is in Denver. But he knew his test results weren’t in when he left. He took a chance that he’d find out bad news while away. He needed to deal with the consequences of that without putting others at risk.
[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
Obviously you haven’t read this thread for comprehension then. More than one person has stated that with normal TB (BEFORE THE RESISTANT STRAINS EXISTED, mind) people were told not to travel outside of their home. Go on, go read and learn. And, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either he was in a blind panic, trying to save his own life by getting treatment to Denver, and therefore deserves a pass, or he deliberately disregarded the injunctions he was given, and broke the law by sneaking into the country, thus revealing himself to be an entitled asshat with no regard for the health of others.
ETA: On seeing your most recent post, if that is the case, why are you taking such a stance?
[/QUOTE]
Taking what stance? I’m just saying I can see why he did what he did after he arrived in Europe. I think it was stupid for him to have left, but not quite sociopathic, which seems to be the general consensus here. I think the blind panic was due to the fact that he was afraid of being left to die in Europe, and didn’t believe he was particularly contagious. What have I said that contradicts that?
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
Taking what stance? I’m just saying I can see why he did what he did after he arrived in Europe. I think it was stupid for him to have left, but not quite sociopathic, which seems to be the general consensus here. I think the blind panic was due to the fact that he was afraid of being left to die in Europe, and didn’t believe he was particularly contagious. What have I said that contradicts that?
[/QUOTE]
He knew in JANUARY he had TB. He knew they were testing to see if he had XDR-TB, and I bet they also touched on what it would mean if it did turn out to be XDR-TB. He knew how nasty XDR-TB was when he got the news, and he knowingly exposed others to the risk by traveling back overseas, and SNEAKING back into the country. He exposed others, even as he KNEW how nasty what he had is. If he felt it was so important that he get treatment in Denver, then he should have gone to see the sights of Colorado on his honeymoon since he ALSO knew the results would be in at any time. He’s blowing smoke up peoples’ asses, and employing mirrors, it is remarkable how adept he is at it though, even Dopers have bought his ploy. Even though he has shown via his actions (going to Canada, and driving into the country instead of flying, so he wouldn’t get stopped at the airport and put into quarentine) that he knew what he was doing was wrong, people are buying his excuses. Amazing!
[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
He knew in JANUARY he had TB. He knew they were testing to see if he had XDR-TB, and I bet they also touched on what it would mean if it did turn out to be XDR-TB. He knew how nasty XDR-TB was when he got the news, and he knowingly exposed others to the risk by traveling back overseas, and SNEAKING back into the country. He exposed others, even as he KNEW how nasty what he had is. If he felt it was so important that he get treatment in Denver, then he should have gone to see the sights of Colorado on his honeymoon since he ALSO knew the results would be in at any time. He’s blowing smoke up people’s asses, and employing mirrors, it is remarkable how adept he is at it though, even Dopers have bought his ploy. Even though he has shown via his actions (going to Canada, and driving into the country instead of flying, so he wouldn’t get stopped at the airport and put into quarentine) that he knew what he was doing was wrong, people are buying his excuses. Amazing!
[/QUOTE]
So, I guess you missed the part where I said it was stupid of him to have left the country. If he was truly told that he wasn’t contagious, then I’m not surprised he did what he felt was necessary, albeit illegal, to arrive back in the US.
[QUOTE=MaddyStrut]
I agree with you on the taping. Why tape the conversation?
[/quote]
I tape all conversations that deal with personal (not business) issues. If I’m calling my bank; my credit card company; or anything like that, I tape the call. If I had TB and somebody from CDC told me on the phone that I couldn’t transmit the disease, you can bet your last dollar I’m taping that call.
[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
So, to get back on topic, how likely do you think the new bride is to have the same strain of TB? Do you think the in-laws might also have it as well? What about his family and friends, and co-workers? He went from January to now carrying on as normal, with XDR-TB.
[/QUOTE]
How rough would the sex have to be for it to involve broken skin? Isn’t that the avenue of infection mentioned earlier? Shit, a light tussle would get you in the door infection-wise.