Is That TB Guy The Biggest Asshole Ever, Or What?

[Capatalist_Lion_Tamer]

@Zabali_Clawbane

That still does not excuse his flights back to the USA! Italy is not a third world country, as has been pointed out. They could have treated him. The US Embassy might have been able to facilitate a way to get him home, too. He knew he was breaking the law, this is proven by the fact that he flew to CANADA, then drove into the US, because he knew he was on the “no fly” list. He’s an asshat!

He was told that his only shot at beating the disease was in Denver. In other words, Italy couldn’t have treated him.

[Zabali_Clawbane]

@Capatalist Lion Tamer

He was told that his only shot at beating the disease was in Denver. In other words, Italy couldn’t have treated him.

Cite, please? I was under the impression that he wanted a “cutting edge” treatment. That implies, to me, that other countries could have treated him, and had success, but that it wouldn’t be as “new”. Is the “cutting edge” treatment even proven to be more effective? I’ve seen mention of “cutting edge” cancer treatments that were later shown to be either not as effective, just as effective, or more risky than conventional treatments. I still don’t buy it.

[brazil84]

@Zabali_Clawbane

That still does not excuse his flights back to the USA! Italy is not a third world country, as has been pointed out.

He claims his understanding was that if he didn’t get to Denver he would die.

The US Embassy might have been able to facilitate a way to get him home, too.

Might have been.

He knew he was breaking the law, this is proven by the fact that he flew to CANADA, then drove into the US, because he knew he was on the “no fly” list.

Does the “no fly” list apply to flights not involving the United States? If not, then it doesn’t seem like he broke the law.

He’s an asshat!

I’m not ready to come to that conclusion. If he reasonably believed that the risk to others was minimal and that returning was essential to his health, then the only thing he’s guilty of is disobeying a government agency while overseas. An agency that left him in the lurch, apparently. And he is a private citizen.

[Zabali_Clawbane]

@brazil84

Does the “no fly” list apply to flights not involving the United States? If not, then it doesn’t seem like he broke the law.

The fellow himself admitted, that he flew to Canada, then drove into the USA, because he KNEW he’d be refused entry in to the country from an airport! So, he snuck into the country, (while risking infecting others, however slight the possiblity) from Canada. Again, he knew he was breaking the law in re-entering the US, but did it anyway.

[Capatalist_Lion_Tamer]

@Zabali_Clawbane

Cite, please? I was under the impression that he wanted a “cutting edge” treatment. That implies, to me, that other countries could have treated him, and had success, but that it wouldn’t be as “new”. Is the “cutting edge” treatment even proven to be more effective? I’ve seen mention of “cutting edge” cancer treatments that were later shown to be either not as effective, just as effective, or more risky than conventional treatments. I still don’t buy it.

If you need a cite for this, I can only assume you haven’t read a single article on the case. He also said it on GMA this morning. Maybe he’s lying. So far, nobody has disputed the claim, but they may soon.

If he believed it, then that would go a long way to understanding why he was going to get to the US by any means possible.

[Capatalist_Lion_Tamer]

@CNN

Speaker said he had been told before the beginning of his trip – which included his wedding – that in order to fight his illness, “I had one shot, and that was going to be in Denver,” at the National Jewish Medical and Research Center, which specializes in treating drug-resistant forms of TB. If he was somewhere else and was not given the exact right mixture of drugs, he said, “That was it, they blew my last shot.”

Link here .

[Zabali_Clawbane]

@Capatalist Lion Tamer

If you need a cite for this, I can only assume you haven’t read a single article on the case. He also said it on GMA this morning. Maybe he’s lying. So far, nobody has disputed the claim, but they may soon.

If he believed it, then that would go a long way to understanding why he was going to get to the US by any means possible.

You assume most incorrectly. I have read several news articles about his, as my multiple posts QUOTING THEM prove. :rolleyes: The post I questioned stated that the fellow thought he couldn’t get life saving treatment anywhere but Denver. This is why he drove to ATLANTA and turned himself in, then is it? :dubious: (Later, the CDC transported him via one of their jets, to Denver.) If he really thought that Denver was the place he needed to be, why did he cause a delay in getting there, by DRIVING TO ATLANTA?! He could have driven straight to Denver if he really believed his life was in imminent danger and he needed immediate, cutting edge treatment. I don’t buy it, it smells rotten to me. (And yes, I do also see that there is “CDC said, TB Andy said” going on, too. I just find the CDC to be more believable in this individual case.

ETA: Pardon, he went to NEW YORK, then Atlanta, THEN Denver. :rolleyes:

@CNN link above

He flew from Prague to Montreal, apparently in order to sidestep a no-fly order that could have stopped or delayed his return to North America. Once in Canada, Speaker and his wife drove across the border to New York, where he was treated at a hospital before being flown aboard a CDC jet to Atlanta. He was moved to Denver Thursday.

[Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley]

@lisacurl

She’s very very intelligent. She’s having trouble dumbing down her conversation in order to deal with us.

I’ve always perceived her as desperately trying to sound very very intelligent.

(Whether she has succeeded is of course open to debate.)

[brazil84]

@Zabali_Clawbane

The fellow himself admitted, that he flew to Canada, then drove into the USA, because he KNEW he’d be refused entry in to the country from an airport!

That doesn’t mean he broke the law.

So, he snuck into the country, (while risking infecting others, however slight the possiblity) from Canada. Again, he knew he was breaking the law in re-entering the US, but did it anyway.

Which law? Which title of the U.S. Code, and which section?

[Capatalist_Lion_Tamer]

[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
You assume most incorrectly. I have read several news articles about his, as my multiple posts QUOTING THEM prove. :rolleyes: [/QOUTE]

Try hareder next time, becasue this:

The post I questioned stated that the fellow thought he couldn’t get life saving treatment anywhere but Denver. This is why he drove to ATLANTA and turned himself in, then is it? :dubious: (Later, the CDC transported him via one of their jets, to Denver.) If he really thought that Denver was the place he needed to be, why did he cause a delay in getting there, but DRIVING TO ATLANTA?! He could have driven straight to Denver if he really believed his life was in imminent danger and he needed immediate, cutting edge treatment. .

…is fucking wrong. He didn’t drive to Atlanta. He drove himself over the border, after which he met agents in NY. In other words, he did the bare minimum of what he needed to do end up in Denver.

[Zabali_Clawbane]

@Capatalist Lion Tamer

<snip>…is fucking wrong. He didn’t drive to Atlanta. He drove himself over the border, after which he met agents in NY. In other words, he did the bare minimum of what he needed to do end up in Denver.

As my corrected post fucking states. :dubious: Chill!

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

But there’s a logical disconnect here:

1. He thought he could go to Europe because he felt fine, wasn’t showing any symptoms; and yet

2. He HAD to fly back immediately because he had the dread XDR TB (however quiescent at the moment) and he was gonna DIE if he didn’t get back for treatment right away; but

3. He got past border control because he looked and felt just fine, sir, perfectly healthy, no problemo.

And the taping of the alleged “you’re okay” discussion doesn’t pass the smell test. It smacks too much of setting up a defense for planned misconduct.

On preview: What Zabali_Clawbane said.

[eleanorigby]

@5-4-Fighting

I think it might be an appicable word in this case.

Infectivity: The proportion of persons exposed to an infectious agent who become infected by it.

See www.medterms.com.

Ignorance fought! I didn’t even know it was a word…

Whoever is the poster in public health (youwiththeface?)–I agree. This guy is in for several years of a very constricted life. I doubt his marriage will survive (but that’s pure speculation), and it’s not at all clear how he can support himself while quarantined.
Pragmatically, practically, what should airport/railway authorities do in cases such as this. I don’t think Speaker should have been waved through the way he was, but there are most likely hundreds if not thousands of Speakers travelling every day.

Not only Speakers, but fellow travelers who have depressed immune systems from recent chemo to HIV status to just being elderly or very, very young. It’s a crap shoot. Speaker is one we KNOW about–what of the others?

[Capatalist_Lion_Tamer]

@EddyTeddyFreddy

But there’s a logical disconnect here:

1. He thought he could go to Europe because he felt fine, wasn’t showing any symptoms; and yet

2. He HAD to fly back immediately because he had the dread XDR TB (however quiescent at the moment) and he was gonna DIE if he didn’t get back for treatment right away; but

3. He got past border control because he looked and felt just fine, sir, perfectly healthy, no problemo.

And the taping of the alleged “you’re okay” discussion doesn’t pass the smell test. It smacks too much of setting up a defense for planned misconduct.

On preview: What Zabali_Clawbane said.

Read the reports again. When he left for Europe, he was under the impression that he had a completely different strain of the disease. While there, they informed him that it was a more serious strain.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

@Capatalist Lion Tamer

Read the reports again. When he left for Europe, he was under the impression that he had a completely different strain of the disease. While there, they informed him that it was a more serious strain.

I’m aware of that. I’m questioning why he thought it was suddenly so important to rush right back if he continued to be (as he still is) asymptomatic. And my take on the “completely different strain” is that it hadn’t been determined yet what strain it was, so while it could be (relatively) benign, it could also be one of the far nastier versions – he did not know when he left. Given that state of affairs, he should never have gone in the first place.

[Zabali_Clawbane]

@Capatalist Lion Tamer

Read the reports again. When he left for Europe, he was under the impression that he had a completely different strain of the disease. While there, they informed him that it was a more serious strain.

Dude, nothing she said goes against that! If he really felt that he was in imminent danger of dying without prompt treatment (after getting the news that it was XDR-TB) THEN WHY THE HELL DID HE DRIVE FROM MONTREAL TO NEW YORK?!!! He delayed getting the cutting edge treatment in Denver by DAYS. His excuse doesn’t hold water, is what ETF and I are both saying. It is nothing more than a transparent whine for sympathy, to win people over to his side, he’s painting himself to look like a martyr, and you’re swallowing it hook, line, and sinker. YOU need to better read for comprehension.
ETA: This too…

@EddyTeddyFreddy

<snip> And my take on the “completely different strain” is that it hadn’t been determined yet what strain it was, so while it could be (relatively) benign, it could also be one of the far nastier versions – he did not know when he left. Given that state of affairs, he should never have gone in the first place.

[eleanorigby]

@Shoshana

Sure, but to get HIV or another STI from you, I’m pretty certain I’d know you were having sex with me on the airplane, and routes of transmission would require a certain proximity, as opposed to you breathing, coughing, etc. into my enclosed airspace.

TB and HIV are very different in terms of transmission, yet when I wrote my dissertation I easily found many contemporary writers and politicians who advocated for quarantine, tattoos, etc. for HIV+ people. It is very easy to avoid exposure to HIV. It is very hard to avoid exposure to TB. I worry that reasonable reactions to TB (like quarantine) may get over-generalized in unreasonable ways to HIV.

sorry for the double post

Not neccessarily–contact via faucets/toilet seats etc (I believe Cecil did a column on this route of transmission some years ago-sorry no time to do a search) is one route for many nasty infections.

HIV caused a huge panic years ago before we found the meds to treat it (I am not referring to those who still panic about it and call for godknowswhat to prevent it). It still is not a diagnosis anyone wants to get.

I don’t worry about HIV-it’s a fairly fragile virus after all. TB is one sturdy mother, though. As a nurse, I have always treated r/o TB pts with meticulous isolation practices. The thought of XDR-TB makes me blench. The thought of XDR-TB in a small confined, drier than desert air compartment for hours on end does not equate to a safe environment for anyone.

[Gangster_Octopus]

@Zabali_Clawbane

Dude, nothing she said goes against that! If he really felt that he was in imminent danger of dying without prompt treatment (after getting the news that it was XDR-TB) THEN WHY THE HELL DID HE DRIVE FROM MONTREAL TO NEW YORK?!!! He delayed getting the cutting edge treatment in Denver by DAYS. His excuse doesn’t hold water, is what ETF and I are both saying. It is nothing more than a transparent whine for sympathy, to win people over to his side, he’s painting himself to look like a martyr, and you’re swallowing it hook, line, and sinker. YOU need to better read for comprehension.
ETA: This too…

How was he supposed to get to Denver?

[Zabali_Clawbane]

@Gangster Octopus

How was he supposed to get to Denver?

He drove from Montreal Canada, to New York City, surely driving from Montreal, Canada, to Denver is doable for him, if it really was “life or death”?

[Larry_Borgia]

I will say the guy seems genuinely sorry.