Is the Republican Presidential field deeply unsatisfying for conservatives?

This was prompted by this quote from a poster on RedState named Eric.

While I doubt most conservatives would be as candid as this, these sentiments do seem to things I’m hearing a lot.

The three current frontrunners, Guiliani, McCain, and Romney, all seem to be deeply disappointing to conservatives looking for pure “movement” bona fides. Guiliani has a liberal record that stretches from wearing drag to championing gay adoptions. McCain was part of the Gang of 14, and despite his kowtowing, he’s “just not one of us” in so many ways that many conservatives seem clear on. Romney looked promising, but the fact that it has come out that he is a former gay-rights supporting Democrat who seems to have overplayed his conservatism, and only recently, has soured a lot of people on him. All of these guys are having to struggle to get even grudging support from major constituencies and their efforts to run right are being met with grumbling disbelief.

And that’s it: those are the front-runners who are most obviously in the race. Every last one of them is a person who could run as a Democrat, and while they arguably might not win a Dem primary, Dems wouldn’t be particularly that upset with them. That CAN’T be something very encouraging for Republicans (if Dems are not that unhappy, you’d better believe that’s a bad sign).

On the sidelines, we have Newt Gingrich. And while he’s certainly flirting with the idea, I have a hard time seeing it work, and so do a lot of conservatives, even if he is ideologically sound. There’s Brownback, but he’s nuttily far enough RIGHT to actually given even some pretty conservative conservatives pause, and very few people think he’s electable. There’s a couple of folks no one has ever heard of. Have I missed anyone who’s making noise so far?

There was a reason that George Allen was a golden boy for the nomination: he was conservative, he didn’t seem to have much overwhelming baggage, he was young, arguably handsome, and he seemed to have a decent message. Some whispered that he was a boob, but that’s not exactly a liability for a politician in terms of electibility, as long as his heart is in the right place. But now Allen is damaged goods: he blew his wad on losing a Senate race that was a sure thing (doing some of the most expensive single ad buys ever in Virginian history too).

There also used to be Frist: he was boring, but he was at least solidly in the right corner. He seems gone too.

In short, the field seems to be very dispiriting for Republicans, and thought I’m a Democrat who of course likes that idea at present, it’s also worth considering that the current slump may in fact shake some new face out: a dark horse Governor (the way Clinton came out of nowhere), a “draft so and so” movement, and so forth. If so, is there anyone out there who could ride into town to bring cheer to the masses?

While I’m focusing on the Republican side in this thread, it’s of course valid to compare the Democratic side, and there it seems like the consensus is that there is a great field. None of the candidates are perfect of course, but they’re all debating the fine points of exactly how to implement universal health care and get out of Iraq. They are ideologically pretty solidly in the realm of most Democrats, and the “oh no, I have to choose between THESE guys” attitude just doesn’t seem to be there to the same extent.

So, what say you all. Are things as I say they are? Do you think Republicans are likely to decide to take another look at someone I mentioned and decide that they aren’t so bad after all? Will they just end up mostly holding their nose during the primaries? Or is this an awesome opportunity for some shining knight of true conservatism to ride out of obscurity and into the White House?

As a former Republican, I see an opportunity for right-leaning centrists to take over the party. The neo-con thing is gonna tank in 08. The radical right need to realize that they will not win in 08. Their options are to run a moderate, or lose the White House for at least 4 years.

My bolding.

It is not dispiriting to Republicans; it might be dispiriting to the Conservatives of both stripes. The old fashion fiscal conservatives that support gun rights and religious, anti-gay, anti-evolution conservatives.

The moderate Republicans see hope for the first time in a while. We might get our party back from the religious nut-jobbers and neo-cons.

That is it for my rant. Just hate seeing Republican made to equal conservative. Many of us are not. Especially in the North East and Left Coast.

Jim

Umm, excuse me?

They are all three solidly Republican. What they are not (arguably) are supporters of the religious right. That doesn’t make them potential Democrats.

While that is true, I think you really must acknowledge that your base, particularly your electoral college and primary base, is not like you. They were fairly happy with where George Bush was politically… except that they think he has been too liberal on domestic issues. So how are three guys who are all far more moderate than Bush (McCain is debatable I guess, but he seems to be a special exception where they don’t trust his record because of his supposed maverick and non-party-loyal image) going to satisfy them?

Heck: many of the Republican moderates just got voted out and replaced by Democrats: the caucuses are now more conservative, not less.

Frankly, Jim, if you are uncomfortable with being viewed as a conservative because you are Republican, perhaps you should become a Democrat. Rockefeller has been dead for ages.

Frank, two of them ran in states/cities where the political spectrum is very much swung far to the left. They may have been in the Republican party in those states, but in comparison to the nation as a whole, they could have easily run as Democrats on the same issue platforms and won in, say, Virginia or anywhere in the Midwest.

McCain, as I said, is a special case, because he arguably has a real record of conservative votes to tout… if you ignore all the other votes and other slights many movement conservatives feel they have on him. For God’s sakes, many Democrats were EXCITED at the idea that Kerry might ask McCain to serve as Vice President. Countless Democrats switched over in 2000 just to vote for the guy.

But regardless of what you or I think, you can’t deny that there is a heck of a lot of grumbling amongst the rank and file Republicans about how these guys just aren’t anywhere in the realm of a George Allen, a George Bush, etc. politically. You only have to read the major conservative sites or listen to Republican pundits to see that.

On the Coat Tails of a McCain-Giuliani ticket, some moderates might get voted in and hopefully some conservatives will be booted out. If McCain gets the nomination like I expect and adds Rudy to pull in the more moderates and independents, they could win. This would set Rudy up nicely for a follow-up run and considering McCain’s advance age, he might well not have to wait 8 years.

In favor of my theory are the current polls and the fact the two are friends and both considered mavericks. Why I think McCain, is Rudy is completely unacceptable to the conservatives that appear to control the party. McCain might be begrudgingly accepted. He is quietly pro-life and not anti-gun. He is in theory a fiscal conservative. This should be enough to get the Right to accept him as the compromise. Rudy get the nomination would be a near revolutionary event. He is so far from the Right, that he is a liberal by their standards, as am I by their standards.

I missed this:

I like the pun to start with.

You are correct, and my hero Teddy has been dead even longer. Do you not think Giuliani would pass the test of a Rockefeller/Roosevelt Republican? There are still many of us in NYC/NJ. I understand to my regret we are rare in most states now.

Jim

Oh, I think they’re a bunch of great candidates!

[J. Chick] Haw haw haw haw! [/J. Chick]

:wink:

I was never one of them, and if they thought McCain was even middle of the road, they were, honestly, idiots. McCain is (or is what used to be before the religious right became so influential) a garden-variety (or common) Republican, with garden-variety Republican stances on the issues. You might be able to convince me of Giuliani - maybe - but Romney has cast his lot with the religious right, and if they believe he’s a Pharisee, well, that’s his problem.

Well, that’s their problem. :smiley:

There’s a long way to go to 2008. It’s possible some one will come out of the woodwork and inspire them. Otherwise, y’know, one would have thought that the party of the permanent majority would be overflowing with presidential candidates.

Romney may be making a play for the religious right, but his record of that being unconvincing bullplop is just spilling out all over the cutting room floor.

McCain may be a middle of the road Republican policywise, but he is an apostate, and a widely unforgivable one. His claimed solid pro-life bona-fides are hampered by countless wishy washy statements and a refusal to really be serious about changing the status quo. He is considered unreliable, wishy-washy, and far too friendly with the left, and then most important are his cardinal sins on both campaign finance and, worst of all, immigration. Amnesty. That’s a word that will toll loud and ominous all over the primary season.

Again, all of these things candidates can try to clean up as they pander to primary voters. But it already seems like a large swath of Republican constituencies aren’t particularly willing to be fooled ALREADY.

Now, if these guys have the Chicago Reader messageboard vote, that’s great, but I don’t think that that has much bearing on what the Republican party as a whole is much excited about.

Guiliani and McCain strike me as rather meh. But I kind of like Romney. Like Maine (Dem) John Baldacci, he’s been a pretty good neighbor to NH. Whether that’s enough to earn him many votes, time will only tell.

Well, that all depends on what you mean by conservative.

FWIW, Ron Paul (onetime Libertarian) is running for the Pub nomination.

I really don’t think immigration is the bellwether some think. That there are some very vocal and rabid people involved who make a good evening news soundbite doesn’t make it a real issue. Tom Tancredo represents a district near me, and he doesn’t win reelection because he’s a head case on immigration, he wins it because he reliably votes conservatively on other issues.

Oh, yeah, he’s a candidate too.

Exactly. Compare McCain to Bush I or Dole or even Reagan and he’s right there with them. Bush II pandered the religious right about “values” issues and delivered absolutely nothing. No overturing Roe, no anti-SSM amendment, no prayer in school, nothing. Rove seems to have given that wing of the Republican party an oversized image of their real influence in the party-- he’ll take their votes, thank-you-very-much, but don’t expect anything real in return.

I think if Hagel jumps in, maybe he’ll be seen as the guy carrying the conservative banner, even though his views on non-Iraq issues are pretty much the same as McCain’s.

I want to say something to all you Republicans reading this thread: every presidential election I have voted democrat. It sounds like Hillary will probably be the democratic ticket.

I beg of you, find someone good to lead your party, because I’m with you guys for this one no matter who you pick.

Please help me out, I am not a big fan of Hillary, but if she was running against Jeb Bush or Brownback*, I would not hesitate to vote for her. Why so much
hatred for her?

Jim

Can anyone provide more info on this? it’s the first I’ve heard about it.

Also, how does someone from Utah end up governor of Massachussetts? or was he just at Salt Lake as CEO of the Olympic Committee? :confused:

From the NYT:

He’s not ‘from’ Utah; he grew up in Michigan - son of 1960s-era Michigan Gov. George Romney, who was briefly the frontrunner for the 1968 GOP Presidential nomination, until he got ‘brainwashed.’

But Mitt declared himself a Utah resident while organizing the SLC winter olympics, and his residency status (and eligibility to run) was challenged with respect to his 2002 Massachusetts gubernatorial candidacy.

Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee would be a potential beneficiary of conservative dissatisfaction with the present GOP field. Atrios summarizes the tale of Wayne Dumond here, and it might be a bit of a problem for Huckabee, should he run.