Is there a deep state or cabal [spelling corrected] that is controlling the government?

Great Debates
#1

Is there a deep state or cobel that is controlling the government? Yes controlling both parties? The reason I ask is many threads here talk about political lobbying the act of giving money to politicians. And the politicians are the CEO of the big businesses so every politicians in power is to help the big businesses to make as much money as they can.

There was this thing going around that Trump is a loose cannon fighting the deep state. And the republican party and democrats party is controlled by the deep state or cobel.

And doing the elections the party that determines who is going to be a leader of party is controlled by the deep state. So in other words if say 20 people or more are running for the democrats party they determine who will be running.

Many Asian countries are pro businesses and pro free market but do step in for grater good of country.

Where in the US it seems to be opposite where big businesses profits are more important than the country.

Some say the US politicians have no morality or are atheists and no longer go to church.

But it seems much more than that. The US policy are very much look like deep state or cobel control the government.

Other people say political lobbying the act of giving money to politicians. But this is not just pro free market and pro businesses this is too the extreme where the businesses are more important than the country.

The US is hard at work at destroying the middle class, sending billions of jobs over to China, making huge trade debt to other countries that your grandkids will NEVER pay off not to say the country debt, making lots and lots of money for China, allowing China to take over other countries, destroying small and medium businesses by taxing the hell out of them, allowing big businesses to buy them up, telling small and medium businesses to close but keep big businesses open doing a pandemic. And giving money to big businesses so called bailout money. The 1% that controls 40% of the US wealth.

The US was responsible for the 2008 recession where millions of people became homeless doing the housing bubble and banking problems.

Where the government know banks where giving loans to poor people and homeless people and there was way too many homes than middle class buyers. But the government give money to banks when people could not pay their mortgage on time. And called in the cops to kick the people out on the street.

This not pro businesses philosophy this is businesses profits are more important than the country and the middle class.

#2

The word you’re looking for is “cabal”.

#3

I got a fever, and the prescription is… more cobel!

#4

It’s entirely possible the government is controlled by COBOL.

#5

The answer to the question is, no, we are not being run by a deep state. There are people with a lot of money who use it to buy influence, but that isn’t the same thing.

Think about it. If some superpowerful group were actually running the government, how could the U.S. have wound up with George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden all being elected President, and the first three of them having to deal with a Congress of the opposite party for at least part of their terms. If I were in charge, I’d make sure people who wanted the same stuff I do ended up in office.

#6

The Deep State conspiracy theory that Trump put forth was the claim that there was a secret plot within the government to thwart the wishes of congress and/or the president. What you’re describing is something different. If big business interests are controlling the government by paying off elected officials, it’s not Deep State; it’s just paying off the government.

Congress and the president aren’t a secret cabal running the government. They’re the people who are openly running the government.

And there is no evidence that Trump was opposed to this big business agenda. He openly declared his support for it.

#7

There is definitely a Military Industrial Complex that has been around since at least the end of WW2 aluded to in the famous Fireside Chat by FDR.

There is also a serious problem in this country of regulatory capture and “Revolving Doors” where politicians or regulators rotate between being lawmakers, members of industry and lobbyists. This has been true for… I believe since at least before the railroads.

None of that’s to be confused with QAnon’s “Deep State” that tends to constantly change definition but usually means the permanent intelligence apparatus and often mutates into “people I don’t like right now.” The intelligence community does some seriously questionable and sometimes overtly evil stuff, like the NSA intruding on American freedoms or the CIA creating instabilities in countries that results in the suffering of millions, but they are nothing else if not loyal to the USA and it’s institutions. They typically maintain a comendable degree of separation from Left vs Right style politics and spend most of their time advancing American interests (even if that sometimes mean American Business interests instead of America as a whole).

#8

In a certain sense, yes, there are deep-rooted bureaucracies or interests. They stymied Trump. And they were typically right to do so.

Every organization or government, once big enough, begins to develop some factions or entrenched interests.

#9

What famous Fireside Chat? FDR wasn’t around at the end of WW2. Are you perhaps thinking of Eisenhower’s farewell address?

#10

That’s pretty amazing. The population of the U.S. is only 328.2 million. Somehow we’ve sent billions (and note that billions means at least 2 billion) of jobs to China. The population of China is only 1.398 billion. So over 143% of their population work at jobs that do nothing except supply products and services to the U.S.

#11

Herp. Yes, sorry I just woke up. Busy week. Absolutley correct, my mistake.

#12

Please, tell us where you got the idea that Trump was some sort of “loose cannon” fighting something called the “deep state”, or that politicians are the CEOs of big business or frankly, any other ideas posted in your OP. This is such a mess of rumors and unevidenced innuendo that it is hard to know where to begin…or even whether it is worth the effort to try.

#13

Think about it. If some superpowerful group were actually running the government, how could the U.S. have wound up with George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden all being elected President, and the first three of them having to deal with a Congress of the opposite party for at least part of the

The elite that give an elusion that you have a democracy. Where it does not matter who is in power be it republicans party or democratic party.

You are not going to get universal healthcare
You are not going get higher wages.
They are not going to break up any companies that have a monopoly but allow this to get worse.
The jobs are not coming back to the US
They are not going to be anti China
They are not going to have better trade deal
They are not going to pay of the debt
The government is not going to care about you at all.
The middle class is not coming back
The 1% that owns 40% of the wealth is going to get bigger.
More wars and bail out money

Well yes George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden all work for the elite like all the other government people.

Trump was being filmed well the election was going on just to fill in the spot!! But a big oops as no media or anyone thought any person would vote for him. Will not happen again.

#14

The conservative conspiracy going around.

But if that was true he had all that time and not one person he took to court saying the person did this or that and is part of the deep state.

#15

So the elite decide who’s going to be president, but they were powerless to stop Loser Donald from becoming president.

Gotcha. Clear as mud.

#16

The Deep State conspiracy theory that Trump put forth was the claim that there was a secret plot within the government to thwart the wishes of congress and/or the president.

Not sure what you mean? Do you mean QAnon conspiracy going around that there where people in government, police, CIA and FBI and Hollywood and every where eating kids. And Trump was on mission to take them down?

#17

What are they getting paid? In dollar figures, please, not “a lot,” or “everybody knows.” Accurate and provable dollar figures, please.

#18

The media did stop filming him, but the people dropped the other people running for the republican party.

Trump was to be a joke and a fill in spot. No one took him seriously and thought he would get any votes.

Same with Bernie sanders they had more supporters and people show up than Biden.

But CNN was ordered to stop filming.

#19

When? If anything, the media gave Loser Donald hundreds of millions of dollars worth of free airtime for his campaign.

#20

Yes when it was apparent he was well in lead race.
They had no choice.

But it was clear by the media and political analysis he would not win. Well because of the sexism and racism overtones and kid like he was acting like. When he talked and sounded like third grader. It was clear no way he can win.

No one thought there was large very large number of closest people in large numbers wanting a pre 1960 of white people , God in the schools and work places, none LGBT, non immigration, sexism. And fear of white people being only 40% by the year 2050.

It seems stormfront and web sites like stormfront has large user base than people thought. A lot of borderline stormfront people.

It just he was rambling on about jobs leaving the US and also Trump did not run on a platform for support for LGBT, universal healthcare, monopoly problems, Well Trump was anti China he was also anti Kong Kong freedom and first time around supported China over Hong Kong.

I do not thing Trump knows what his political views are other than wanting white people to be a majority, LGBT to go away, God in the schools, government, courts so on and anti abortion.

He was just very anti liberal on social issues and kinda ran with that platform.

The US was very conservative before the 60s and this sticks with lot of old timers and people missing the past.