Is there a deep state or cabal [spelling corrected] that is controlling the government?

You and I have clearly not been living on the same planet for the last 40 years. There are definitely tens of millions of people in this country who want all of that, and they were pretty vocal about it long before Loser Donald threw his hat in the ring.

Jillwood77, if you want to persuade anybody on this message board about anything, you’re going to have to learn to spell better and to write more grammatical sentences. See if there are any classes you can take anywhere near you to learn better English. As is, we have problems replying to any of your posts because we can’t even get past the bad English in your posts, let alone understand any of your confused arguments.

Are you saying money is controlling the government or not? And if so how much? Millions or billions?

Or are you saying it is not money but some thing else?

I’m saying the idea that the government is being “controlled” by some secretive cabal is fodder for potboiler novels and Hollywood movies.

I will make a thread on this later on how members here can say on how to improve my English.

May be some members can point out some of the grammar and spellings errors in a PM to I make a thread on how to improve my english.

It might help if we knew what your primary language is.

Some one said when I write some times my english comes in at a 4th grade level and some times 3th grade level. Is this what you notice?

Some say I leave out words when writing. Does that seem to be big problem here?

Is sentence run ones a problem? Not putting enough commons and periods?

Example

See if there are any classes you can take anywhere near you to learn better English As is we have problems replying to any of your posts because we can’t even get past the bad English in your posts let alone understand any of your confused arguments.

VS

See if there are any classes you can take anywhere near you to learn better English. As is, we have problems replying to any of your posts because we can’t even get past the bad English in your posts, let alone understand any of your confused arguments.

Is there a lot of sentence run ones here the lack of commons and periods?

Or is it some thing else?

I will make thread later on it to see how I can improve my english.

Say what?

There are absolutely a number of people who made it their mission to use the machinery of government and law to oppose Trump and thwart his agenda.

They weren’t doing it in secret, either. They were very open about their loyalty to the United States Constitution and their defense of democratic governance, and their hostile activism against the efforts of Trump and his allies to destroy democracy and install an authoritarian perversion of the American ideal, controlled by a minority of rich white people.

This is not about being part of a deep state. This is just being a good and loyal American.

Here are some run on sentences that explain it.

http://writing.umn.edu/sws/quickhelp/grammar/runons.html

When Trump and his supporters referred to the “Deep State”, what they meant was people who were just trying to do their jobs. They hate that, because it calls into focus how they’re not doing their own jobs. So, for instance, a mail carrier who is trying to deliver the mail as efficiently as possible, instead of trying to prevent the delivery of mail like Trump wanted, is part of the Deep State. An office worker in the EPA who’s trying to keep the environment clean and healthy, instead of working to trash it like Trump wanted, is part of the Deep State. A Congressional staffer who actually reads through proposed bills and highlights relevant portions for their boss to read through, is part of the Deep State.

I guess we could call those folks the Benevolent Deep State and I’m glad that they’re here for the country.

But I believe there’s also a counterpart Evil Deep State, composed of the monied interests that our system of government allows to have outsized influence in our elections and our deliberations. And one of Evil Deep State’s commitments is to prevent any kind of meaningful election reform that would diminish its influence, a commitment that may be the biggest threat to the nation in the decades ahead.

You need to explain who these people are and how they control the government.

Just saying they are part of the deep state does not explain who they are and how they control the government.

If you mean “are there hidden parts of the government that are unaccountable to voters or special interests,” no, those aren’t real, except (probably) parts of the national security apparatus.

If you mean “are there parts of the government I don’t know about that are run by moneyed interests and are unaccountable to voters,” yes, almost certainly, to various degrees. From time to time I learn about some agency or department that has powers I hadn’t fully appreciated (or I just never knew), whose regulation seems to be captured by industry or corrupt interests.

I don’t mean covert or nefarious in the sense of the Illuminati, just in the way that capitalism likes to insinuate itself into the cracks of democracy and quietly capture it with gobs and gobs of money. This is overwhelmingly likely to be legitimate-looking industrialists from places like Texas and Alaska, not the Rothschilds.

A situation might involve a number of powerful actors that have the same interests and consequently independently push in the same direction.

Or the situation might be the same except that the powerful actors don’t openly work together to push in the same direction as such, but they share a certain amount of information, or overlap in personnel to some degree, etc

Or a situation might be the same except that the powerful actors actively but secretly work together as a single body to push in the same direction.

From the outside all three options are likely to look pretty much the same.

I suspect there is a lot of the first and second. My guess based on Occam’s Razor is that there is not nearly as much of the third as some conspiracists believe.

If by the “Deep State” you mean only the third option then I think you are leaping to unnecessary conclusions. You just don’t need to go assuming a secret conspiracy when the first two options are adequate to achieve powerful interests’ goals.

If by the “Deep State” you mean the first and/or second option then they undoubtably exist, quite openly.

Of course people with lots of money have outsized influence on government. This has been going on to various degrees for centuries. If anything, it’s more open now than in the past.

People who rant about “cabals” are unable or unwilling to understand how government works. But it comforts them to think that their self-induced helplessness is due to secretive malign forces of which others are unaware.

Magnificent bastard.

I have spent a significant part of my consulting career working with very large federal government agencies. The biggest issue is not some imaginary cabals or corruption. The biggest issues in government is incompetence and lack of accountability. There is very little motive to drive success and failure is rarely punished. Unless you’ve committed a crime in the workplace, accountability for poor performance is virtually non-existent. You can waste millions of tax payer dollars on a failed project, blame the consultants, fire them, and carry on safe in the knowledge that no one will hold you responsible.

That is not to say that it’s all bad news. Some agencies are much better than others. There are some highly competent, dedicated and even brilliant federal employees. But there are fewer of them than there ought to be and they are too often dragged down by the dross of incompetence and deliberate laziness.

What there is not, is an organized cabal or deep state. There is far too much incompetence to organize anything so remotely competent.

But aren’t the people with whom you worked pretty far down stream from those who truly craft policy ? Aren’t they just end users who respond to, rather than creating, policy ?

Much like it’s “not who votes, but who counts the votes …” isn’t the drafting of legislation where much of the shit starts rolling downhill in the US ?

And isn’t the crafting of legislation subject to lobbyists on the front end and the Courts system on the back end ?

And don’t the monied interests (no secret cabal necessary) have dramatic influence on legislation by way of lobbyists, and don’t those (same or different) interests have an outsized influence on who serves the judiciary ?

The Deep State to whom the Cheeto-Faced Shit Gibbon referred was, to me, dedicated civil servants and a vigilant media, all of whom valued country over party and – to some degree – really did seek to protect and defend the Constitution.

But is money pulling a lot of the strings in the US ? Oh, yeah. And is it talked about enough, highlighted enough, spelled out enough, broken down into easily understandable elements enough ? No.

The media should help us follow the money – ask, “Who profits ?”

In general, they don’t. Guess why.

Do you believe the QAnon conspiracy theory is in any way factually accurate?