Is there a short non-racist substitute for "Indian giver"

This sounds good. It’s suggestive of what it means.

Taker backer, according to Rugrats. :slight_smile:

I really like Leno as the substitute for Indian giver. It has everything you need in an epithet. It’s short, easy to remember, just vague enough that it doesn’t have to be a direct reference to something, but a direct enough reference that it’s funny. Plus it’s easy to say, which things like ungifter or take backer aren’t.

I’m going to use it.

Well, the original version was “Welsh,” and that just opens up a whole new can of worms.

Thus the knowing wink. :stuck_out_tongue:
Take-backer suffices. And that’s the way it will be. No Take-backs!

As someone else said, the proper term is renege. It means to go back on a promise. However, the problem is that it’s a term that could easily be misunderstood, or pronounced incorrectly.

Otherwise, I like what someone else said. I like the term Leno giver.

There is a native southern Alberta story about boomerang giving. There are lots of stories around there* about a guy I’ve heard called Coyote or Iktomi, where he breaks every social rule in the book; makes long boring speeches, tries unsucessfully to cheat on his wife, sits on buffalo skulls, etc… He isn’t evil, but is so bad at identifying appropriate behaviour that three-year-olds laugh and criticize (which is part of the fun).

One day, Coyote was strolling around in the foothills, wearing a fine new cloak, when he met Raven.

“Hello, Raven! Don’t you think I look good in this cloak? Isn’t it pretty? Sets off my handsome looks perfectly, wouldn’t you say?”

“It is a lovely cloak” said Raven “I don’t know when I’ve seen a finer one. It really is beautiful – the colours, the pattern – so artistic, so well-made”.

“Oh” said Coyote, pleased, “if you like it that much, you can have it!”

Raven was absolutely delighted, and most grateful to Coyote. Coyote left him there, still admiring it, and set off eastwards on his way again.

At first Coyote felt very proud of his generosity; but by and by he remembered how lovely the cloak was, and he started to regret his decision. Finally he turned and ran back to Raven, and asked for the cloak back. Raven gave it back, but he wasn’t very happy about it, and after Coyote had left he sat and brooded and got really angry.

“He really is insufferable” said Raven “It’s time someone taught Coyote a lesson”; and he picked up the biggest rock he could find and flew after Coyote.

He overtook him quite easily, because Coyote was stopping to look at his own reflection in every slough. Then Raven dropped the rock from a great height, and it hit and shattered, pinning Coyote to the ground.

“Ai!” said Coyote “My cloak! My beautiful cloak will be ruined!”.

He wasn’t hurt, but the only way he could get out was to wiggle free, leaving the cloak under the rock. Raven flew off, well-satisfied.

I don’t know what happened to that cloak, but as for the rock, you can still see it today.

So there is definitely a difference between reciprocal giving (“I bake a cake for them every year, and they’ve never so much as sent us a Christmas card!”) and boomerang giving, and the latter is condemned in a native morality tale (which I think is pretty old, although I only really remember the broad plot outline, and everything else should not be blamed on anyone but me).

  • *Warning: your local myths and characters may vary, even if they have the same names. Cultures are like that, don’t blame me.

A few other versions:

http://suite101.com/a/the-legend-of-napi-and-the-rock-a36329

http://home.online.no/~arnfin/native/lore/leg086.htm

…all much more similar to one another than the version I remember, so it may well be that my memory is at fault.

The oldest written version I’ve found dates from before 1892: Blackfoot Lodge Tales: The Story of a Prairie People by George Bird Grinnell - Free Ebook (section “The Rock”).

Awesome, HLHJ–love the story! Folks who don’t see why the term is racist need to read the story and think about how it illuminates the concept. Do you think the Blackfoot call Coyote in that story an Us-giver?

In Taiwan, “Athletes foot” (the fungal infection) is called “Hong Kong Foot”. In Hong Kong is called “Singapore Foot”.

Nope, they probably say Coyote acts “mighty white.”

I think Cecil went too far with “Indian corn”. Originally, “corn” just meant the local staple cereal. It is easy to see why Europeans would call maize “Indian corn” - not that it is “false” corn, but that it is simply the local corn grown by Indians.

Since it is a phrase or terminology using a compound word, and only the prefix of that word is considered distasteful, then only the prefix needs the adjustment. Suit to taste with your favorite non-pejorative. The more obvious the context, the better.

For example: “ungrateful giver”.

Yes. In the united stated, Brasil is spelled Brazil, and football is called soccer. When in Rome… :slight_smile:

There are no ideal words. All words are semantics. There are simply good times and places to use certain words and terms… and bad times and places to use them as well. It all depends on the common subjectivity of the cultural region and the vocabulary and interpretation of the individuals engaged in conversation.

Okay, here’s another try at making up a new term: a selfie gifter.

How about re-purposing the phrase “repo man” for this?

I know this is a zombie, but since **bup **is still around …

I’d like him to explain what *Leno *means in this context. I know there’s a fading talk show host by that name, but that’s all I know about him.

But you got what I meant by Andrew Jackson giver, right?

I assume that it refers to the fact that Jay Leno turned over his role as host of the Tonight Show to Conan O’Brian in 2009, then controversially returned as host after only a few months when Conan’s ratings were disappointing.