Like Raphael Warnock or the Black Church? Or the Christian Left? Or do you just mean Christian Conservatives? So why claim all Christians who have a political identify based on their faith share the misdeed you attribute to Christian Conservatives?
Your explanation explains nothing.
I am not sorry for what I meant in the original post. I am sorry that my words were taken that way, and more directly, my words were not sufficiently clear to avoid misunderstanding. But I am not going to apologize for what I intended to say, that there people who identify themselves politically as Christians, often associating with other political philosophies as well, who hide their true political motivations behind those labels.
If this is the explanation you are referring to, it is just as stereotyped as your original comment:
You are saying that all Christians, when they act in a political group, are sneaky, hypocritical, and dishonest.
That’s all you need to know, apparently: any and all Christians, acting in a political group, are sneaky, hypocritical, and dishonest.
You are attributing personal characteristics to all members of a group, based solely on their religion and the fact that they are exercising their right to act in a political group.
No further information is needed, apparently, about the personal values and conduct of the individuals in that group. Based on their religion, we know that they are sneaky, hypocritical, and dishonest when they act politically.
That is the epitome of stereotyping and prejudice.
How come that non-denominational aspect is often linked to being right-wing? Why would they often overlap?
It’s more like the type of Evangelical/Fundamentalist churches which now dominate the “Religious Right/Conservative Christian” factions had evolved out of a movement that felt that the historic denominations were too intertwined with the worldly establishment, and that the true believers needed to set themselves apart from that corruption. So a political movement tied to how we need to return to the Good Old Values would find fertile ground there.
A quite extensive discussion of this was done in the NPR Throughline series back in September (transcript). TL/DR: opportunistically, the Right Wing seized on these denominations being already predisposed to see the Culture War as bringing down righteous values (and leading to, y’know, exposing their kids to the heathens) , to create wedges and build power bases.
That’s not how I interpret such a statement. He didn’t use the word “all.” I see “when acting as a political group” as a limiter, an attempt to limit the topic to particular Christians and not all of them.
I do think his limiter was insufficient. There are left-wing groups who identify only as “Christian.” But, at the same time, I share the frustration that there’s not really a good specific term. “Christian Right” is probably the closest, but lately I’m not sure the word “right wing” really describes them.
I’m a Christian myself, and I was not offended, as I knew what he was trying to say. But I do thank him for clarifying what he meant. And I agree with his general sentiment.
While individual right-leaning Christians can be decent, the political group that identifies as the Christian Right seems to be led by people who are sneaky, hypocritical and dishonest. The biggest reveal of this was how they not only supported Trump but also tried to integrate him into their theology. This man who violates all the Christian commandments, who fits none of the guidelines on how to select a leader, who shows no fruit of the Spirit, who worships himself and Mammon (money) and has thinks he’s never sinned–they act like he’s somehow God’s chosen one and that opposing him is blasphemy.
Many of these leaders are now pivoting back, since it’s becoming politically advantageous to do so. But the fact they did this at all shows that they were being sneaky, hypocritical, and dishonest. And since they were and are still leaders in the “Christian Right,” the movement as a whole was willing to go along with that. Even the Bible talks about how you can be judged by those you choose to follow and associate with.
TriPolar didn’t use the word “all”, true: just said “Christians” without any qualification or limitation. That includes all Christians. Where’s the limitation in the reference?
Copied from the ATMB thread offshoot from this thread:
" OP of the original thread here. Frankly, I would like to avoid both widespread accusations about Christianity as a whole and attempts to take any criticisms at all as attacks on all Christianity. All I wanted was a discussion of Christian groups that started out supporting Trump and whether any of them have turned away from that original position because of what he has done and/or said since they took that position. Personally, I wouldn’t mind if y’all started a separate thread about whatever it is this discussion is about."
I suppose it’s not really a “backlash,” since the USCCB was never on board with Trumpism, but it’s certainly an objection.
And, whether or not you’re a Catholic, or a Christian of any stripe, the USCCB is hardly insignificant.
Modnote: Enough about making this thread about @TriPolar’s post. Please stop it now.
The words he chose are not very clear. I believe he knows to be more careful next time.
This is just a guidance, not a warning. Nothing on your permanent record.
You are correct-It is not.
I know I’m correct. My post was quite clear.
The post to which I responded asked about a backlash or objection.
Yes, it’s a data point in a rural community, My observation is that Trump was an effect rather than a cause. Trump blindly surfed a wave of right wing issues that predate his candidacy and survive his Presidency. They are part of the diverse views of citizens in a nominally Christian culture. I do not see evidence that anything has changed. There is no ‘backlash’.
Because as far as those groups are concerned he hasn’t done much, if anything, to offend them?
Yes - what little they don’t like is blamed on the Progressives. Obviously the right wing was very pleased with Trump. America as it used to be. The America of Gordon Moore. Or, so it has been expressed to me.
I believe the folks who may object are in a similar position now as before. Trump didn’t change the extremes. Any change was likely among moderates and independents. My opinion, no cite.
This is an important thing to bear in mind, especially when it comes to the leadership that steers the various RW factions (even the nonreligious ones). That many of the rank-and-file followers bought into the specific personal idolatry of Trump due to disinformation and anticritical conditioning in their religious or political bubbles, is a separate matter – the leaders will seek to move them on to the next shiny thing, while keeping Trump’s name, like Reagan’s before, as an object of veneration that you must invoke.
At best among the radical so-called Relirious Right you may hope for a general disappointment that Trump was personally a clay-footed idol and they got yet one more case of “we got the time for the prophesy wrong” – but we should not expect a mass rejection of the general goals and methods of the movement, or of using the notion that the political contest is an extension of Armaggedon and an existential struggle to prevent the extinction of “Real America” as the thing to keep the followers’ backs up.
He has offended them by urging them to attack the Capitol and overthrow the election result, then disowning them, refusing to pardon anyone who took part, backing down, and quietly going along with election result in the end.
He looks useless and ‘weak’, and that’s the one thing they will never forgive.
A lot of his followers apparently think he lied to them and betrayed him. To what extent pro-Trump evangelical groups think that, I don’t know.
I agree with @JRDelirious that whatever they feel about Trump personally, it won’t change their thinking.
Am I correct in thinking that those conservative non-denominational Christians tend to be white and put emphasis on questions of race/law & order, that the Good Old Values were the values that predated the civil rights of the '60s?
Well, with the note that they’d been calling for a return to Good Old Values since much earlier even than that. They’ve been on and on about how whatever is the current social trend is a sign of the decadent corruption of the World and the imminent End Of Days for over a century. They just became actively politicized in the form we know them now after the 60s
Pastor Robert Jeffress, who was a strong evangelical Trump supporter, has taken a surprisingly circumspect approach to Biden:
So not a “backlash” or abandonment of Trump, but at least an appeal to his supporters to calm the fuck down.