Do you understand that the higher the rate of vaccination, the better herd immunity works?
Ok got that one, and it does show we are ‘playing around’ the numbers for effective herd immunity. So with that we are at the point where it may be unwise to allow a opt out.
This is a interesting part of your cite:
Now I don’t know who Shea is, but she opines that fear is a factor of the anti-vax crowd. My point from the near beginning that this is a emotional battle not a logical one.
I find it interesting that you read “misinformation…fears” and focus exclusively on the fears part. I don’t necessarily disagree with you, mind, but I think there’s an intended emphasis on the “misinformation” part by the author who wrote that and by Shea (Dr. Kimberly Shea , Assistant Professor of Epidemiology at the Boston University School of Public Health)
No perhaps I don’t. I assume once a certain level is reached (herd immunity) there is a sharp decline in infection, each additional person vaccinated makes very little difference after this is reached.
From your statement it appears that hear immunity does not exist at all, it just as close as we can get to 100% that matters. This however contrasts Czarcasm’s post #109 where known percentages are given as cites.
If you read/remembered my earlier posts, I do believe this has always been a emotional issue, not a logical one. I called it spiritual warfare. To me it is the fear that must be dealt with, and that does not happen by countering with logic (IMHO), but with Love (emotion). Emotions must be dealt with on a emotional level and logic on a logical level. I feel the root of this is emotional not logical.
I know you do. I find it interesting that you cherry-picked one word out of a paragraph which seems to mostly indicate that it’s an information (aka logic) issue. That the information issue causes a fear issue is almost an afterthought in that quote to me.
No, those numbers are just the baseline for herd immunity. Please, learn something about immunology.
Personal experience also factors into this, I dated a anti-vaxer, it was pretty clear to me that it was fear driven + mistrust that allowed her to accept any ‘information’ given as her case, so it was of no effect presenting logical arguments, but getting to the root of fear + mistrust seemed to be the (more logical) route to take.
I don’t think that education (logic) can solve this unless you can gain trust (emotion).
What this means in the real world is anybody’s guess. In the meantime the facts are pretty clear: vaccinations help prevent diseases, and when people choose not to get vaccinated, they put their own health and the health of others at risk. I note that once again you say “I assume…” when you could’ve just asked what the facts are. That would save everybody a bunch of time.
Far be it from me to make an ‘ass out of you’, but where in your quote of me did I ‘assume’?
I’ve asked for cites but have not got anything outside of czarcasm #109 in this respect (ok one other). All that I have seen just indicated a hard cut off of herd immunity.
I was thinking of this post:
And might I add: what a surprise, another term is redefined!
But of course you’ve done plenty of assuming in other posts:
And I actually do agree with you. I was calling you out on what appeared to be a misappropriation of a quote, rather than your belief that at least some, and probably most, of antivaccination sentiment is fear driven.
In fact, I think that’s pretty much the basis of my “fight 'em with marketing” strategy. I am no longer convinced that one can convince the die hard antivaccination crowd that vaccines are safe. If the overwhelming evidence doesn’t do it, if compassionate listening and gentle education doesn’t do it (although sometimes it does do it, as I hope I’ve demonstrated in this thread with a couple of posters, including you) then I don’t know what else can possibly alleviate those fears.
So instead, I want to try to start making them *more *afraid of vaccine preventable illness than they are of the vaccines. I want to present a realistic version of the toll that vaccine preventable illness takes on individuals and families, which is pretty awful, even when the (overblown) death risk is taken off the table.
Perhaps it was a misappropiation of a quote. I tend to take it that there is a ability, or gifting, to see things for what they really are. I believe that people always reveal the truth regardless of their intention or even their ability but it take this ability to perceive it and cut though the, well basically non-issues, which are smoke screens. The reason why we reveal the truth is we are god’s children and that’s what we do by our nature, but it is clouded by our human nature.
I think this is a good conclusion.
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Fears are due to past hurts, it’s a learned reaction, and when one is ready to overcome fears it typically comes out at the opposite - ‘rage’ or ‘anger’. But when that happens the original thing that caused the fears might be long gone, and the vax issue it’s new home in the mind and heart of the person.
The vaccine has become their demon’s (fear’s) new home.
Good luck with this, I could see it working in some, as it would point out that what they are doing is causing suffering to others, which could invoke remorse and their love for others.
OK then thanks for clearing that up since that was not the post you quoted, and I didn’t want to assume 