Is there anything that can be done about internet pedophiles?

Great Debates
1

For the last few weeks I have had an AOL Instant Messenger handle that says I am a 12 year old girl in the profile, for baiting pedophiles. It’s good for a few laughs when you tell them you aren’t really a chick and turn things around on them, or give them the FBIs phone number when they ask to call you, etc., but I have come across a few really scary ones who seem really serious about meeting in person, who claim to and probably have done it before, and I am beginning to feel like I should do more than humiliate them. Could something be done about them if I reported them to the proper people, and who should I report them to (if it would do any good)? I’ve been able to get a lot of personal info from them (especially the ones who seriously want to meet), and have been able to get a couple to go to public places to rendezvous, and I save the chat logs from the worse ones. So what can I do about them?

Also (and this is more of an IMHO question), I have heard of parents who do this kind of thing just to keep the pedophiles busy chatting with them so they have less time to harrass real children - do you think this is a good thing to do? My first impression is that it is at least somewhat beneficial (I kept one guy busy for a couple of hours tonight, after which he had to log off), but now I am thinking maybe it might actually encourage the more psychotic ones, get them used to the idea of actually meeting a girl in reality (like the guy who went to a certain mall in a nearby town and then next time got pissed because I wasn’t there).

2

I think the FBI does what you’re doing, i.e., has agents pose as children to lure pedophiles. They’re probably doing things more “by the book” so that entrapment can’t be claimed if and when they aprehend them.

Your efforts, while noble in purpose, might be either diluting the FBI’s efforts, or stoking the pedophiles emotions. For instance, the guy who went to the mall and got mad at you might eventually hook up with a child and take his anger at you out on her.

I admittedly visit “adult” internet sites. Many are designed to instantly pop up other browser windows automatically. Before you know it, there are a dozen sites displayed on your screen. Once one of these purported to have the youngest girls on the net. (This usually means 18 and 19 year olds.) I clicked on the enter link, and a dozen images appeared of what were with no doubt 7-12 year olds! I quickly took down the URL of the page, then closed everything. The next day, I called the FBI. I got routed to the division that investigates these things, gave them the story, and that was that.

3

another thing to consider:

Your set up (posing as a 12 year old girl) could ** also** be construed as a lure for other 12 year old girls.

I’d suggest leaving the detecting to the pros

4

I don’t chat long with minors. I ask for age, sex, and location early on when they contact me, and if they are under 18 I blow them off. Otherwise, I just make innocent conversation, making sure they know I am supposedly 12, until they start talking about sex, after which I will play them along until one of us gets bored, or they ask for my phone number (at that point I give them the phone number of the FBI, which usually results in them logging off immediately). I imagine I make them very paranoid about chatting up young girls in the future.

5

Pedophiles are mentally or emotionally ill, sexually immature men. They will be with us untill we find out what is fundamentally wrong with the way we socialize boys in our society which causes a small proportion of them to become pedophiles. Untill we do that, we can lock up pedophiles till the cows come home and the society will produce more just like it produces drug dealers.

6

Badz, this feels REALLY unpleasant to me. Can I invite you to reconsider whether this is the best use of your time?

Whatever the outcome it’s not a positive one - you have no clear evidence that you’ve actually helped anyone. If you worked on an organised program for increasing kids’ self-esteem, for example, you might see definite outcomes that are undeniably positive.

You’re at risk of being seen as a vigilante or possibly a decoy in an entrapment situation. As you pondered, are you encouraging guys to try to make assignations with other kids?

And why do you want to talk to these creeps anyway, if it’s not required by your profession? They’re creeps - don’t get too close.

There’s also a danger that some people will suspect that you are making a big fuss about NOT being a pedophile because somewhere deep down it is a bit fascinating to you. I am certain that if you spoke about your activities to your local police, for example, they would be VERY cagy with you, discouraging, and possibly add your name to a list of "suspected of"s. And you don’t want that!

I am convinced that pedophiles can most easily get power in situations when there are elements in the child’s family life that are not right. Families that are reluctant to talk about sex and touching and privacy of children’s genitals, and that don’t treat their kids with respect, are more likely to create a need to be wanted that a passing pedophile can link into. The more self-esteem, and honestly happy family life a child has the less she is likely to want to sneak out, deceive her family and meet a man much older than herself.
galen suggested that “we can lock up pedophiles till the cows come home and the society will produce more just like it produces drug dealers.” If this is so, maybe strengthening children is going to help them be safe more than hunting pedophiles.

Perhaps it was an interesting experiment , and now it’s time to lose the handle…?

warmest thoughts,

Redboss

7

uh Badtz, not Badz

D’uh!

8

I started doing this basically because most of these guys are pretty dumb and easy to make look like idiots - baiting.org has some hilarious chat logs with these types, though I have not submitted any to this site.

Don’t get me wrong, the primary reason I do this is the joy I get out of pulling a prank on someone, in this case on someone who really deserves it. Any secondary reasons (i.e. scaring them out of trying to get cybersex out of young girls, keeping them busy with me instead of with real kids) are just fringe-benefits, if that. I do it for fun, to provide humorous material for my friends, and to practice my role-playing skills (my persona is far more realistic than the ones at baiting.org, which could only trick really stupid pedophiles).

I’m also learning a lot about how these guys operate, perhaps that information could be useful - I know that when I have a daughter I’m going to have a lot to teach her about these kinds of people. Redboss, you are right about how these guys prey on children who have ‘problem families’. One of the scarier ones would start asking if I had family problems, was I molested, were my parents mean, etc., and would ask me if I had ever run away and would suggest that I do so and come to him. I gave his handle to some friends and they IMd him (something I never do, I wait for someone to initiate conversation with me) and their logs were frighteningly similar to mine, he would ask the same leading questions, it was almost like he was working from a script.

I think this thread should probably be moved to IMHO or GD, since it has strayed away from the ‘Who can I report these people to and can they do anything with what I know?’ to 'Is this a good or bad thing to be doing?;

9

Actually, from what I’ve read, almost all child molesters were once molested themselves. That’s not to say that everyone who’s molested becomes a molester, of course. Far from it, even.

If we were able to lock up every single child molester in the world and leave them to rot and die, it is entirely possible that the problem would be eradicated.

I’m torn on whether baiting is a good idea or not. On one hand, as AWB pointed out, it could cause a buildup of anger that would be taken out on the predator’s real victim. OTOH, as Badtz said, you’re wasting their time. Not only that, but if these sickos run into enough baiters, they might get frusterated and give up their search.

I guess there are other things that could be done. For example, the developers could add a filter to the ICQ & AIM software that would automatically end a chat if certain keywords came up in a conversation with someone whose profile indicated that they were underage. Just have the parents lock the age into the program and password protect it to prevent youthful tampering, and you’re good to go.

10

LOL, that reminds me of one prank I pulled on a guy. I told him that my Dad was a network security consultant and he installed some program that monitored my chats and would automatically issue a warning whenever certain words were used - I clicked ‘Warn’ every time he said anything that had anything to do with sex. The guy built up quite a warning level and I got him using a bunch of ridiculous code words for what he was talking about before I switched my posting style, said I was the girl’s father, and tore him a new one for trying to cyber with my daughter.

11

I think Redboss and AWB have the right of it.

Badtz, to answer your OP, don’t go looking, give whatever info you stumble across to the FBI and keep out of it. You are unlikely to make matters better, and are very likely to make them worse.

To the paedophile, you are feeding their interest, both because they can justify to themself "Look, N children have spoken to me, so that proves they are interested and think this is an OK thing’, and because you are leading them on, sexually teasing them.

Paedophiles are rapists. (Sex with a person who cannot knowingly formulate the concept of consent is rape, in my book). They aren’t going to stop and think “oh, someone made fun of me, humiliated me, guess I’ll just stop my interest in children now”. As AWB pointed out, they are more likely to get angry and take it out on the next child they do meet. I understand your concern, and the need to do something, but being a vigilante isn’t the answer.
[sideline]Redboss, that was most elegantly said. I’ll buy you a beer next time you’re in Sydney![/sideline]

12

WHAT? Are you trolling? Ok, I’ll bite anyway.

Socialization causes pedophilia<period>? I could just as easily state the cause of pedophilia is clam chowder. Stating it doesn’t make it so. However, assuming people buy my theory, every one who eats clam chowder is now demonized. But we haven’t done anything about the actual problem, which remains undefined. So, my theory would make me part of the problem.

How can you arbitrarily define pedophilia as a product of society? I could say the same of serial killers, rapists, lawyers, politicians, christians, the French, yadda yadda yadda. Stating the cause for ones behavior is purely the product of the society in which one lives is insane. The human mind is more complex than that. However, thanks to people like you, men in general are now viewed with suspicion, as in this thread, when in the vicinity of children.

Yeah, that’s working. Thanks for demonizing half the human race and not doing anything about the problem while you were at it. Good job :rolleyes:

Further, your comparison is inaccurate. Demand for drugs produces drug dealers, not “the society”. It’s simple economics. I doubt the same can be said of the demand for pedophilia.

13

Pedophiles mostly just look at pictures & do little else. Pederasts, on the other hand, really do some stuff to the kids.

I’d think it was pretty dangerous to pretend you are a 12 year old girl on the Net.

14

Badtz-have you ever considered going into that line of work?

Or possibly starting an awareness group about this sort of thing?

I think your heart is in the right place.

15

To second what Guin said, Badtz, you might try looking at http://www.cyberangels.org. It’s a site I came upon a while ago (after reading an article in Reader’s Digest), and they seem to be an organization that does a lot of good things – including something similar to what you were doing, btw. Give it a looksee, maybe.

16

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Hard to tell one from the other at times. And the language used by lay people (and myself) is not consistant. True pedophiles really do love children, and the sexual attraction is a small but important part. They are more likely to just look at pictures, less likely to assault a child. Those who sexually abuse children are much more common, don’t really like kids, tend to have been abused as children themselves, and are far more likely to do physical harm to their victims.

Also remember that pedophiles are attracted to sexually immature children. Hebephilia is the attraction to sexually mature young people, and we are programmed evolutionarily for this to a great extent. Youth + sexual maturity = fertility, sending the message to the male “impregnate this one, she’s young and healthy and more likely to bear healthy children”. But now with our children reaching sexual maturity before they even reach their teens, this becomes problematic. A few drinks, or other judgement-impairing maneuvers, and it’s “honest officer, I didn’t know she was underage! What do you mean she’s 13?” Not a valid excuse, but it can be a true statement. Perhaps we should all have our birthday tattooed on our foreheads.

also IMHO (I’m full of opinions, and other stuff) I feel that lack of informed consent = lack of informed consent. To equate it automatically with rape to me seems to do a disservice to the individual who was battered physically (or other) into submission, then physically violated.
That’s why penalties for statutory rape are (generally) less severe than those for rape.

17

Question…would you pretend to be black, or Jewish, or homosexual, and while chatting up people of these minority groups, give out the phone number to the KKK?

What you are doing is harassment, plain and simple. Pedophiles are not the monsters portrayed in the media, they are a SEVERELY marginalized and misunderstood group of people who, for whatever reason, were cursed with a sexual attraction towards children.

I used to have the same prejudices as you, and in fact did nearly the same thing you did – pretended to be a young boy, and got involved in pedophile chat boards hoping to get people’s personal information and forward it to the police. Yes, some of the people I met were pretty scary. But most of them were…well, just like you and me. Normal in every way, aside from their inclinations. (Plus they would bring up things you don’t hear in everyday conversation: “See that latest Hanson video?” “Yeah…that Zac’s got a nice ass!”)

Why do people hate pedophiles? Because, people just need someone to HATE. It’s no coincidence that while prejudice towards gays, blacks, Jews, etc. has decreased, prejudice towards pedophiles has INCREASED exponentially. People need to have a specific group of people that they can marginalize and vilify to feed their false sense of self-esteem…to say, “At least I’m not like one of these creepy monsters!”

The media feeds on this hate to sell advertising dollars. Politicians feed on this hate to pass restrictive anti-free speech laws.

Check out the Rind report sometime (dammit, I wish I had a link to it.) It concluded that more than 60% of people who, as a child, had a sexual experience with an adult, were either unaffected by it or actually LIKED it. In many cases, it was the child who approached the adult, NOT the other way around!

But wait, you say…didn’t the Psychiatrist’s Association publicly denounce the Rind Report? Yes, they did. Hmm, why does “Galileo” immediately spring to mind…

Society says, “Children are too immature to give informed consent for sex until they’re 18.” On the other hand, we put 12 year old kids on trial for MURDER and send them to adult prisons, like that Tate kid in Florida. If kids have enough maturity to make adult decisions about killing other people, why do we say they can’t make adult decisions about having sex with other people? This is just crazy.

J.E.T.

18

The Rind Report

J.E.T.

19
      • I think a larger question should be if the police should be trying to lure people into crime in the firt place, and if it should be possible to jail people for having arranged a meeting with criminal intents, but without having committed any actions.
  • The “criminal intents” part is evading me: throwing people in jail not for what they did, but for what other people divine they wanted to do. Heck, I might as well give all my stuff away and skedadle on down to the county jail right now. - MC
20

In general, there’s no way around doing this. Should a motorist who accidently hits and kills a pedestrian with his car be charged with murder? He did kill someone, didn’t he?

What if the pedestrian was shooting a gun at him? If the motorist’s intent was to defend himself, not necessarily kill the pedestrian, does it matter?

It gets a little muddier if you throw in entrapment issues. IMHO, searching out pedophiles on the internet is best left for professionals.

Arjuna34