If you don’t see the faults in that logic - then nothing here anyone tells you will help you realize it was unethical. It may have been legal in 39 states, but law and ethics don’t always align.
Furthermore, if you had to come on here and ask the question as to its ethicality - then that tells me you were unsure yourself, and just wanted verification of your actions. And that is why you perceive Rand Rover’s answer is correct - because it is what you wanted to hear.
Thanks for your opinion. You do realize that your view on this isn’t shared by everyone, right? Of course I wasn’t sure. That’s why I asked. And the OP and many other posts make it clear that law and ethics don’t necessarily align.
I definitely don’t need verification at all. I would be the first to admit when I do something unethical. But I’m not convinced yet. But I’m still willing to be. The first step might be if someone, perhaps yourself, can address the examples that I raised in Post 34.
right. It all comes down to whent here is a reasonable expectation of privacy. And what rights are potentially trampled byt he behavior. In a bathroom, I have a reasonable expactation of being able to move aside some clothing without being observed by anyone else, or having a recording of the action being made.
In this case, the only “right” which might be taken away is the contractor’s “right” to make false promises or misstatements without recourse. The OP has given himself recourse to prove exactly what was discussed and agreed ebtween the parties. This amy or may not hold up in court, but he has given himself the gift of certainty shoudl a conflict arise.
I think the basic disagreement stems from people having different expectations of privacy. I go through my life pretty much assuming that outside my home and any bathroom or changing area, I may very well be recorded. I recently tripped and fell in a department store and my first thought was “Oh great, some security guard will have that on youtube with the hour. . .”
It’s just part of normal life now.
In your post 34, you say there are cameras that record you in public, without your knowledge, without your consent.
Seriously? Are you really serious that you are going to claim as fact that you are being recorded without your knowledge? You don’t see the irony in that?
Flatly put, I just think its unethical to invite someone into your home, in a private setting, and record them without your knowledge. It’s creepy. Thats my opinion. You are free to have your own.
For what its worth - my coworker was recording a contractor doing work in his house last year, and the contractor screwed up causing lots of unintended water damage. I thought that was creepy at the time as well. In his case, the video did nothing other than tell my coworker what the contractor informed him of later - there was a mistake that resulted in a water leak and damage that they’d take care of and get fixed.
Given that unethical behavior has the potential to cause harm, I’d say it is indeed a bit different than ice cream preferences. No one’s going to get screwed over because I like chocolate ice cream more than vanilla. I very much doubt that anyone would be much affected by my ice cream preferences at all.
The root of my ethical system is, at its most basic, “Harm none.” The root of my ice cream preferences is what tastes good to me.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. You seriously think that I know every single one of the hidden and not-so-hidden cameras that exist in midtown Manhattan and that I’ve given consent to each and every one of them to record me? Really?
So if I did it in a public setting, it would be okay? Like the other example in that I gave in Post 34.
Okay, but I’m not sure how that’s relevant. I’m not doubting your consistency in what you believe, however right or wrong it might be.
So I take it that you’re against recording childcare workers and babysitters as well?
I’ll admit to some discomfort to the ubiquity of surveillance in public spaces (or private office buildings) these days. To some extent the “lesser of two evils” applies – public safety is important after all – but there’s a fine line between public safety and Big Brother. And I also think it’s reasonable to assume that if you’re in public, people will see what you’re doing, and might record it (and honestly I don’t get any difference between “I see you with my eyes” and “I see you with my camera”). I think it’s fine for a bank, for example, to have security cameras to protect their property and the safety of their employees and customers; and I think it’s reasonable to assume that going into a bank means you’re being recorded. Since a person knows they will probably be recorded by going into a bank, going into the bank equates to consent.
When you’re talking about interactions between two individuals, though, public safety and being in public view is off the table, so the tone shifts.
To be clear, I think you would have been ethically fine if you’d told them you were recording the conversation upfront. If they stay, they consent. Sure, some of them might have just left; but those are also, most likely, those who know they’ll make verbal promises they won’t deliver on or guarantee in writing, so you wouldn’t want to work with them anyway. It’s a fast way to weed them out. Or, you know, just insist that everything you want be written into the contract, and refuse to work with them unless they do. If the purpose of the recording is to clear up misunderstandings later, then there’s no reason I can see to be secretive about making the recording. If that’s the purpose, it protects both of you.
As for things like nanny-cams, honestly if you want surveillance in your home, I don’t know why you wouldn’t just tell the nanny that it was there. The idea is to prevent abuse of your kids or property, no? Not just to catch them after it’s already happened?
Good points. I now think my father was quite prescient when he advised me (at a very young age) to “always live your life as if you’re being recorded at all times”.
I guess the obvious response to why one would have hidden nanny-cams is that it’s impractical to have them everywhere in the house. If the nanny was aware of them, he or she would know where to hide from them.
FWIW, I’m an HVAC contractor.
I’m reasonably sure most professional, qualified contractors would not be scared or confused. They’d be offended. I would be.
If work was busy we would find a way to exit; like telling you we couldn’t get to it for 4 weeks.
One approach ----and this is common----is to give you the highest possible price within reason. (actually borderline unreasonable) The logic is this: this is, and will be, a problem customer. Cover every base----4 times. And price it that way.
All of this, of course, would be the case if we were aware that you were recording.
Tell nanny that the cameras do exist, but not where. And if nanny doesn’t want to consent to being recorded, s/he can pass on this particular job. (And be nice and don’t aim a camera directly at the toilet. There’s not much trouble one can get into whilst sitting on the throne. :p)
Ok, sorry for my sarcastic snaps before. Probably uncalled for.
Public/private doesn’t really matter to me. What matters is that the person be made aware of their recording. When I walk into an ATM, I see a sign indicating that I’m being recorded. When I walk into a corner store, I see a sign that I’m being recorded. I’m generally aware of the fact I’m beign recorded in public places, and although I dont know exactly and precisely where - I’ve been made aware that it is occuring.
Yes, I would not suppose to record a childcare worker or babysitter unless I told them I was doing so. I agree with a previous poster - they dont need to know where the camera might be, just that they are being recorded (except in the bathroom).
It does to me too. Sorry Jacknifed Juggernaut, you don’t seem like a creepy person, but this behaviour does seem a little creepy. And that is probably how the boss of the company you’re dealing with would see it too.
Nice easy solution.
Recording someone without their knowledge is unethical for another reason - because you could then record stuff which really is none of your business, like them chatting to their colleague about a date with a blonde when they’re married to a brunette. Or that they’re out with that colleague but not with their boss. Or they were ten minutes late and didn’t mention it to their boss because what he doesn’t know won’t hurt him.
OTOH, you could record them confessing to something pertains to a murder case. 
Besides, if you do tell them you’re recording, you’re more likely to get honest answers and be less likely to have to go through the rigmarole of asking for money back.
Not meaning to hijack, but this thread reminded me of this news article where to-be robbers pocket dialed 911 accidentally.
The videotape verified the contractor’s version of events. :dubious:
I agree that blackmail is unethical, but you sincerely believe doing whatever it takes to protect your kids is unethical? :dubious: If the sitter doesn’t know WHERE the camera is, she’ll (sorry to stereotype) be on her best beahvior EVERYWHERE in the house. It comes down to trust, and the less you trust, the less likely you’ll get bitten in the ass.