Is there much chance Obama won't be the next US president?

Certainly there is a chance Obama could lose, but it seems a bit of a long shot. The Republicans so far have really fouled up their opportunity for a 2012 victory. In a couple weeks, the party will have a chance to rally around Romney, who should have pretty much wrapped up the nomination after South Carolina. The staunch conservatives may hold their noses, but they will have plenty of time to build a strong campaign.

Now, if Ron Paul does run 3rd party, all bets are off. He might take just as many votes from Obama as he would from the Republican candidate.

What indications? I presume you don’t mean current polling results.

I don’t see how. There are plenty of Dems dissatisfied with Obama, but only because he’s not left-liberal enough. How would Paul appeal to them?

I know I’ll never vote for one of those Momnoms!

He won’t, but they might just stay home and not vote for anyone which would be bad for the Dems.

Still I expect Obama to win unless things change drastically before November (which could happen of course).

There is the anti-militarist thing, which is something Obama certainly isn’t and no likely future Democratic nominee will be, either.

If the economy continues its slight upward trend, then Obama will win in a tight race.
If the economy stalls again, then Romney has a real shot. None of the other Republicans are credibly presidential. If Gingrich follows through with his planned vicious anti-Romney attacks, he will do a lot of Obama’s work for him. Gingrich still won’t be the nominee, but Romney will be weakened.

I wouldn’t be so optimistic; your reasoning relies too heavily on… reasoning. So much depends on partisan divisions, and currently the number of Americans who self-identify as Dems trail Republicans by two percentage points.

You have to hope that the thirty percent that aren’t divided up along party lines are significantly going to vote for Obama, while being conscious that this set also includes people too far out to identify with your main parties.

Have you met more anarcho-syndicalists than Libertarians? If so, your rosy outlook is understandable. :smiley:

I’d give Obama a 55% chance of winning. Republicans will be much more motivated than in 2008, and Democrats less. But Obama apparently has a massive and well funded reelection machine that will help get out the vote. Also, the enthusiasm on the Republican side is much more anti-Obama than pro-Romney, yet that was nearly enough for Kerry in 2004, and Obama has a slightly lower approval rating than Bush did 8 years ago.

It will come down to the usual swing states, and will probably be as close as in 2004. The strongest supporters of either side will be shocked that their side lost, probably due to their candidate not being liberal/conservative enough. Also, voter suppression or voter fraud will be blamed for their candidate losing a crucial swing state.

Oh there are a handful of reasons why Ron Paul appeals to some liberals. Anti-war, anti-Patriot Act, anti-big business and drug legalization are a few. He’s not your typical conservative republican.

I’m not sure about his being “anti-big business”, but you’re certainly right about the others.

The problem is that Paul reaches these stances for all the “wrong” reasons (from a liberal point of view). Sure, Ron Paul would, say, legalize heroin, but he would also eliminate funding for rehab centers and just let the market sort things out. Regarding his anti-war stance, he’d get us out of potential foreign wars like the brewing conflict with Iran, but he’d also allow Iran to go ahead and mine the straits of Hormuz.

In general, Ron Paul doesn’t believe in any federal intervention, and that is a two-edged sword. This IMO is the fundamental flaw with libertarianism: People are entranced by the personal freedom, but the entire philosophy relies on the flawed notion that the folks with the guns and the money–whoever they are–won’t naturally try to dominate the rest (a fact to which the whole of human history testifies). At least when government does it, there are a few democratic resources to control it.

Or a no-edged sword.

Why would this be so? The latest voter enthusiasm numbers show a tie at this point. Republicans Less Enthusiastic About Voting in 2012

Bush in Jan 2004 was basically exactly where Obama is now. And Bush had a clear downward trend (this was post Saddam-capture bump). Obama has been stable at ~43-50% since Jan 2010. RealClearPolitics - President Obama Job Approval. Right in the historical “vulnerable” range.

These statements are all probably true - although I think the most two likely events are a close Obama win, a close Romney win, and a large Obama win. I don’t see a huge Obama loss at this point, just because of the electoral vote situation.

Pace John Mace, there are many historical precedents that indicate that Obama should win and very few that say indicate that he should lose.

The one losing indicator that gets thrown around all the time is the “fact” that no president since Roosevelt has been re-elected with an unemployment level of over 7.2% IIRC. This is a fact pretty much like the fact that shorter hemlines predict a rising stock market. It’s a correlation, not a causation. Roosevelt was re-elected with double digit unemployment, because he was seen as being better suited to turn the economy around than his opponent. That’s all the “fact” means. What is almost certainly more important is the trend of unemployment up to the actual election day, as with Reagan in 1984. Right now, unemployment has dropped from 9.8% to 8.5% and economists believe that trend will continue. Other economic indicators, including consumer confidence, have been increasing or rising. Certainly Romney will be able to make a case against the economy and certainly a large fraction of Americans are unhappy about it. The question remains: will voters see Romney or Obama better suited to continue the positive changes? Right now, although polls show weak support for Obama they don’t show better support for Romney.

But it doesn’t really matter what national polls say, does it? The election will be decided like the last several: by the behavior of a few swing states. That makes prediction much harder, because swing states are labeled that for a reason, and because they will be inundated by all the heavy apparatus of modern campaigns - the ads, the speeches, the ground organization, the websites, the Facebook pages, the robo-calls, and on and on - which won’t be seen by the vast majority of the population. The 83 million people in California, New York, and Texas will be taken for granted.

What does this reality indicate? Again, it’s favorable for Obama. He won big in 2008, gaining a full 95 electoral votes more than the 270 needed for election. To predict a loss, you have to predict that the Republicans will hold on to every state they won plus win back almost all the swing states they lost. As an example, they’d have to win every midwestern state they lost: Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan plus the one district in Nebraska to get up to 270. (Not counting changes by redistricting.) That seems extremely difficult. Other combinations would work, and Florida would be a big prize. However, that’s the magnitude of the task. Is is reasonable to think Obama will lose every single midwestern state? Not really.

Why is this true if they are being especially hurt by the recession? Because of another, and perhaps the major, historical indicator. Americans hate - hate - to vote out a sitting president unless there are extraordinary circumstances.

Look at elections in what might be considered the modern era of politics, from 1900 on. That’s 28 presidential elections. No sitting president ran in 1908, 1920, 1928, 1952, 1960, 1968, 1988, and 2008. That leaves 20. Sitting presidents were ousted only 5 times.

1912 - Taft lost because the most popular man in the country, Teddy Roosevelt, ran against him and split his party in two.

1932 - Hoover lost because the country was in deep Depression and trending downward by the day.

1976 - Ford lost because he was not an elected president; he was seen as interim and retained too many ties to the hated Nixon/Watergate era.

1980 - Carter lost because of a downward trending economy, and a charismatic opponent.

1992 - Bush 1 lost because of a downward trending economy, and a charismatic opponent.

Only those last two bear any resemblance to this year for comparison purposes. But the comparison works against an Obama loss. He’s in an upward trending economy and will face one of the least charismatic opponents of modern times, probably no better than Bob Dole or Michael Dukakis.

There’s still plenty of time before the election. A third party run will make polling predictions bounce all the place, but it’s almost certain to come from the right and take votes away from Republicans. The majority of Republicans voters who are now holding their noses may catch Romney Fever. The European economy - or heck, the Chinese economy, which can’t keep this up - may tank and set off a worldwide depression, for which the sitting president will get blamed. Iran may launch a nuclear missile at Israel, starting a serious war. Ifs can work both ways, though, and I can make up a bunch of scenarios favorable to Obama. That’s why I throw out ifs.

As of right now, in the world we live in, given a reasonably straightforward extrapolation to November, all the important indicators are slightly favorable to Obama. I honestly don’t understand how to make a non-partisan argument that supports John Mace. Slightly favorable isn’t overwhelming, true. Predicting Romney a year ago to be the candidate was utterly obvious. Predicting Obama to win over Romney is far less certain. But I predicted that a year ago as well, because the same set of indicators leaned in the same way. The only change since then is that the economy has trended even farther upward. That can’t help Romney, even if the economy is nowhere near as good as any sitting president could want as a minimum.

Although the anti-Obama fraction of the country is large and strident, the pro-Obama fraction seems equally large and will be fired up (read: a billion+ dollars of ads) by November. Those in the middle will decide and they are not the Republican base that has dominated the news for the last year. They are apathetic and uncertain and hate both sides and will make up their minds at the last minute. But they would have to swing wildly Republican for Obama to lose. I can’t see any indication of that. Obama for the win.

Barring a scandal or the economy tanking, I’m confident that Obama’s going to win. If the republicans had a moderate, personable, charismatic candidate I’d be worried, but the best they’ve got is Romney and I just don’t think many conservatives even like Romney, he’s just the best of their limited options. I know that much of the enthusiasm for Obama has evaporated, but I think he’ll still be able to motivate his base more than the Republicans with Romney as their candidate.

Should one of the not-Romneys win the nomination, I think Obama wins big.

For Obama to lose, someone else has to win. Given the current crop of competitors, I don’t see anyone who can unseat him. It’s like the Republicans aren’t even trying for this election.

I seem to recall a lot of undecided and ambivalent voters said they would vote for G W Bush for a second term because they felt like he should ‘finish the job’ or because one should ‘not switch horses in the middle of the stream’, etc. I’d expect those folks may feel the same about Obama.

You mean like his approval rating and the right/wrong direction rating? No, those aren’t in his favor. And they’re very important.

On the unemployment front, I think there is something to be said about not paying too much attention to the absolute rate, as long as it’s falling. It’s been high so long that people are sort of getting used to a “new normal”, and are going to look more towards the trend than the level. But that’s just my sense right now.

I think they call that a “club”.

The Dems had an insane enthusiasm advantage in '08. A slight Republican edge today is a huge change from four years ago.

Bush was just above 50% four years ago, then soon slid into the upper 40’s, where he remained from spring through the election. Obama is currently in the upper 40’s, and I’ll assume he’ll still be around there on election day.

It’s hard for me to imagine Obama winning or losing by a large margin, barring some major event.

Ah yes, I see what you mean. Agreed.

Right - you’re comparison to 2004 is apt, I think, right down to the uninspiring challenger.

Yup, agreed. Basically his top-end is 2008 (minus the electoral vote shifts). I’m not sure what the bottom is, probably around 220 EV.