36 years into a country’s life is still the “beginning.” Regardless of your opinions of Mr. Key, which I don’t care about either way, you admit that there indeed was a flag being flown during that battle. That’s all I was saying…that there were indeed flags being flown in battle in the beginning of our country. Your post implied this wasn’t the case until a hundred years after the country began.
And besides, with a country full of diverse ethinicities, religions, and beliefs, it is hard to point to any one thing we all have in common. Respect for the flag is a nice way to unify an otherwise disparate people, IMO.
That’s an inaccurate rendering of what I actually said. I said flag veneration–flag worship–not respect is silly and juvenile.
Perhaps because you inaccurately rendered what I actually said. Now that I’ve directed your attention to what I said, does your stance on the basis of this thread change?
You do remember it don’t you?
You have this memory to carry, it makes you a more knowledgeable person, more interesting and interested. You have this to discuss with others, and obviously care enough to pay attention and even be smug about it.
Or at very least you had a weapon you could weild. Either way, you’re tied to others in our soceity by this event.
That’s culture, you’re part of it, thank you for illustrating my point.
And yet I’m not smug, ridiculous charges (and they’re ridiculous) to the contrary.
kniz: You can pretend all you want that I’m saying “they” to include every single person in the country, but you really should know that’s very dishonest intellectually. It’s kind of hard to not know to whom I was referring unless you decided to ignore the examples I put into parentheses. Scroll back up and look at the posting. & the comment about “love it or leave it” applies to the SDMB, not to the country. That is yet another bit of intellectual dishonesty on your part.
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36 years into a country’s life is still the “beginning.”
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Sure, but even 36 years into the country’s life, still no one really cared about the flag re the flag. Key’s poem was noted because it was uncommon in using the flag as a metaphor for our perseverence.
Uh, no it didn’t (though I’m at a loss as to what you think the event Key describes was, and what you think that base was).
I implied that flag veneration didn’t begin until later, which it true. And there were many many land battles that were NOT fought under the flag, even a late as Custer’s major battles.
There was a “the” national flag as of 1777. It wasn’t the regimental flags I was talking about when I pointed out that the various representations of “the” national flag demonstrate very little concern for the already unelaborate Congressional design.
The number and arrangement of stripes (unlike the stars, which came in all arrangements) was set by law. However, as I pointed out, even some of the founders seemed unsure as to what the flag even looked like. It wasn’t widely known, as I said. It rarely appeared in early American life.
Hmmm… I seem to remember someone else saying this… but you seemed to be disagreeing with them before.
Yes, and I said as much already. The American flag was actually worshiped in Europe by hopeful revolutionaries long before it was as widely worshiped in the U.S. That’s what the Delaware crossing picture was painted: to inspire the Germans to rise up against their rulers (it didn’t work extensively enough, unfortunately)
I’m finding myself wondering why it’s so big a deal for some people that I’ve even dared to ask the question. Let me try to rephrase the essential query:
What, exactly, is it about the flag alone, among all the symbols of this nation, that gets people so uptight? Why is even considering abandoning that one particular symbol such anathema?
Yes. Which still means it’s valid to question why the flag in-and-of-itself is given special value.
(As to “the one thing all of us have in common”, why, sily me, I thought it was the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness )
I disagree. I didn’t ask for a “thing” all Americans have in common, I asked for a symbol. I don’t consider my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to be a symbol; I consider it to be an inalienable right.
I think the flag is given special status because of convenience, being that flying the flag is preferable to blasting the anthem on endless loop or keeping bald eagles in a cage.
What religion prohibits respect for the flag? i didn’t realize there was one.
It’s ingrained/indoctrinated from childhood in the US. The whole ‘Pledge’ malarkey, the hand on heart, the rising anthems, the flag in the breeze, the ‘shining beacon of democracy’ stuff . . . . . appeals to the base human tribal instinct, which is why no one else does it. To nationalistic for comfort. And nonsense.
All very last century, imho, or the one before that . . . but, I guess, it’s part of what empire’s do in order to do what they do . . .
Our (NZ) flag has the Union Jack in the top left hand corner and then 4 red stars which symbolise the Southern Cross. The Australian flag has the Union Jack in the top left hand corner and 5 white stars which symbolise the Southern Cross. I can’t tell you how many times I have either been asked or overheard the question “Is that our flag or the Aussies?”
But every Kiwi knows the silver fern and the black jersy is us. We all chose to, as nations, take something on that announces “i am a …” It doesn’t have to be the flag but i would feel fairly certain in saying every nation has something that makes it feel united.
For us our flag is secondary to the Silver Fern symbol perhaps the ol’ red, white and blue is the most unifying symbol for the US.
calm kiwi: I’m not asking about what is or isn’t a unifying sybmol. I’m asking why there’s this whole bit in the US about what amounts to worship or extreme reverence for one particular symbol.
